New Camaro is a generation ahead

[cosmo]

What is so special about the 1LE? In a straight line it's actually .1 tenth slower than the 1SS since it's about 70 lbs heavier.

Take a base GT with PP, add some MPSS, springs, widen the track with bigger rims or get a really aggressive offset then you can really close the gap with a lot less.

The only advantage the Camaro has is the engine/tranny/diff oil coolers. The brakes on the GT is pretty stout as well.

I guess it's a descent deal for those who want to track but most would rather have straight line speed.

ediff.

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[eric n]

I have not yet had the opportunity to sit in the new Camaro. I have be inside the last generation and pretty much hated it. That said the new Camaro SS and the the Zl1 are pretty amazing performers.

I will choose to stay with my GT350 and enjoy it everyday. Those who chose this Chevy aren't making a bad choice at all. All hail the evolution of American Muscle which will result in better cars from all manufacturers.

 

[GOFAST]

Sorry, but no. $1600-2000 in wheels & tires and $1000 in suspension/chassis will get you on the level with the 1LE on a road course. The power/torque deficit is mostly negated by the net torque advantage the MT-82's gearing provides, and can be wiped out by a good tune. Let's say you tune the car, that puts you in at $3500 on top of a base GT PP (can be easily had at ~$33-34k, sometimes lower), which sits you at roughly the price of a base 1SS. Sure, not everyone wants to mod, and for those that don't and want the best performance potential (even if they can't exploit it) on the race track, then the 1LE is a great buy.

It still has the same shortcomings the SS has, in that the visibility is atrocious, and many things regarding daily driving the car are worse (HVAC vent location, trunk opening, rear seat much less useful than the S550). This isn't counting that subjectively, it's not on the same level as the S550 from a looks perspective.

$1600-$2000 for Wheels AND tires?!?!? I think you are really low balling some numbers here, but whatever that's fine. My reply was to a statement of taking a base car, not a base car w/PP and making it as track capable as the 1LE. I am not saying it is not possible, I just don't think it can be done with a base non PP car within the MSRP price difference of each car. Agree to disagree......I am not much in to bench racing anyway so I don't care....just don't see how its possible. Maybe you can get the modded base GT to match or approach the 1LE avg lap time ONCE......but in actual real world tracking, I don't think the modded car would hang. Again, the post you are replying to was about a non PP car, so coolers and brakes would be a needed upgrade too for serious track duty.

 

[GOFAST]

I don't think you need a supercharger to beat 1le if the aftermarket is no concern. My point was, with full warranty and out of factory which car gives more performance for the money. Lets forget about the gt350 with it's ridiculous 57 grand price tag at this point. That car is for people who really want to own a rare unique track capable 5.2 fpc beauty. As far as making the gt as fast as the 1le goes, a base gtpp with suspension and shock modes, gt 350 im, intake, full exhaust, drive shaft upgrade, opg upgrade, lighter wheels with more rubber and finally a good tune can be done on a lets say $34,000 car. With all those modes you are probably looking at close to a 1le price. You might even end up with money for cosmetics too.

You're 100% correct, you certainly don't need a supercharger to beat a 1LE. In reality if you want to build a 1LE killing GT, you NEED to skip the supercharger entirely and work on the items you suggested to beef up handling and close the power to weight ratio gap, which is easily done with a simple tune.

The GTPP can by all means be modded to match the 1LE, but in the end of the day the cost will be about the same and one will still be doing it with full factory warranty in tact. That is fine for most including me, but some people act like that is apples v apples comparison when it is really not at all.

 

[Tm@c1965]

I can't get over the looks

Just can't. Looks like a ricer combined with a cartoonish pony car with no rear end and a "toilet lid" hood. Otherwise its a great car.

As for the earlier comment about it looking like a 2010.....it does only it looks WORSE. The 2010-2013 had ROUND lights. Those actually looked good in ZL1 form.

 

[BmacIL]

$1600-$2000 for Wheels AND tires?!?!? I think you are really low balling some numbers here, but whatever that's fine. My reply was to a statement of taking a base car, not a base car w/PP and making it as track capable as the 1LE. I am not saying it is not possible, I just don't think it can be done with a base non PP car within the MSRP price difference of each car. Agree to disagree......I am not much in to bench racing anyway so I don't care....just don't see how its possible. Maybe you can get the modded base GT to match or approach the 1LE avg lap time ONCE......but in actual real world tracking, I don't think the modded car would hang. Again, the post you are replying to was about a non PP car, so coolers and brakes would be a needed upgrade too for serious track duty.

I would agree on a non-PP car. Too much else to add. From a base PP car, I think it's entirely feasible.

You can get decently light 19x9.5 or 10" wheels for about $600-800 and good tires for $1000-1200. $2000 is entirely reasonable for a robust, but not the lightest available, track-focused setup.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I would agree on a non-PP car. Too much else to add. From a base PP car, I think it's entirely feasible.

You can get decently light 19x9.5 or 10" wheels for about $600-800 and good tires for $1000-1200. $2000 is entirely reasonable for a robust, but not the lightest available, track-focused setup.

Yeah, it looks like (I checked quickly so CMIIW), but it looks like a base GT is ~$32K, the LE1 is about $10-11K more.

So you've got about $10-11K to work with (not factoring in the unknowns of discounts, etc.)

For $3K, the PP gives you a ton of track improvements: big brakes and better ducting, HD radiator, TORSEN rear end, better springs/sways/shocks, other misc suspension improvements. That would leave you with ~$7-8K.

The Ford Handling Pack includes better than PP springs/sways/shocks (and supporting components) for $1500, a tune for $500, wheels/tires, even budgeting $2500, you're at $4500 spent of the difference. Heck, might as well add Recaros into the starting price for $1600

Anyway, it's an interesting thought experiment, most of the people talking about the LE1's track capabilities have never seen a track, and at the end of the day (as you well know), if you're doing HPDEs, it's about fun and skill improvement, and you'd be better off saving the $10K for the events (registration, travel, hotel, tires, pads, gas) :cheers:

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Anyway, it's an interesting thought experiment, most of the people talking about the LE1's track capabilities have never seen a track, and at the end of the day (as you well know), if you're doing HPDEs, it's about fun and skill improvement, and you'd be better off saving the $10K for the events (registration, travel, hotel, tires, pads, gas) :cheers:

To true. More bench racing. The vast majority will never see any type of track. Full disclosure. I haven't been on a road course in a few years.

 

[SVT-DADDY]

I drove both cars before I bought my Mustang. The bottom line is that the Mustang is a more practical and comfortable daily driver which is what is most important to me. The Camaro is faster for sure, as a matter of fact it feels even faster than the numbers would indictate. However ride quality, seating position, visabilty are all far below the Mustangs.

If I were looking to track the car on the weekends I'd go with the Camaro.

The truth is that most of us get caught up in bench racing and never even race these damn things.

 

[Seceda91]

I drove both cars before I bought my Mustang. The bottom line is that the Mustang is a more practical and comfortable daily driver which is what is most important to me. The Camaro is faster for sure, as a matter of fact it feels even faster than the numbers would indictate. However ride quality, seating position, visabilty are all far below the Mustangs.

If I were looking to track the car on the weekends I'd go with the Camaro.

The truth is that most of us get caught up in bench racing and never even race these damn things.

I agree.. I have never driven the new Camaro and I don't plan too either. Soon I will probably end up with a 5.0 and even if the Camaro is faster, I still wouldn't choose it over the Mustang.

This may sound stupid but I just don't want the new Camaro to have any bragging rights.. even if I don't plan on racing one lol.. which is why I'm hoping for the 18 model to even things out in the power department.. If not, I'll get a used 5.0 and mod it.

 

[MRGTX]

When will the c6g a**holes go back to there own form:doh:

Nice to see that you've moved on, sir...I blew coffee out of my nose when I saw that you "thanked" TwinTurbo's request to keep the discussion civil.
:lol:

Really!!? For $45K as tested you could buy a base GT, a supercharger or turbo system, and tires and suspension. Do you really think a 1LE Camaro is going to outperform a ~650 or more HP Mustang with aftermarket suspension and sticky tires?

100% agree...but as has been mentioned since this post, modded vs stock is a really difficult comparison since it leaves too many variables to the owner. Also, it would open the discussion to buying a beat 1970 Camaro for $3k and dropping $40,000 to turn it into a protouring/LSx powered track monster which could be built to smoke any modern/regulated stock machine anyway.

Pretty sad when I say I like all 3 of the major cars & will eventually purchase one of each, and you start calling me names. Grow the he** up.
...

This was my experience when first joining these discussions. Don't give up. There's plenty of good content here and it IS possible to like more than one type of car. I currently have a 2 Mopars, a Ford and now, a GM (Saab) in my garage!
:cheers:

What is so special about the 1LE?...

Camaro SS 1LE Highlights

• • 6.2L LT1 V8 rated at 455 horsepower, and 6-speed manual transmission (automatic transmission not available)
  • Magnetic Ride Control
  • Segment-exclusive electronic limited-slip differential with 3.73 ratio
  • Unique forged-aluminum wheels with 285/30ZR20 front tires and 305/30ZR20 rear tires
  • Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires with a compound and construction developed exclusively for Camaro
  • Brembo brakes with new 6-piston monobloc front red calipers and 2-piece rotors
  • Track cooling package with engine oil, differential and transmission coolers
  • Suede steering wheel with shorter-throw shifter
  • Dual-mode exhaust system
  • RECARO front seats with aggressive bolsters optimized for shifting and steering comfort
  • Satin black hood, front mirrors and unique 3-piece rear spoiler
  • Available Performance Data Recorder

 

[Sasuketr]

You're 100% correct, you certainly don't need a supercharger to beat a 1LE. In reality if you want to build a 1LE killing GT, you NEED to skip the supercharger entirely and work on the items you suggested to beef up handling and close the power to weight ratio gap, which is easily done with a simple tune.

The GTPP can by all means be modded to match the 1LE, but in the end of the day the cost will be about the same and one will still be doing it with full factory warranty in tact. That is fine for most including me, but some people act like that is apples v apples comparison when it is really not at all.

There is also that magnaride aftermarket problem but looks like 2018 models will have that as an option. It is hard to give a car track ready shocks, springs and all but also expect it to behave a daily driven or highway cruiser. Magnaride makes that possible.

One other thing some people don't consider is the value of a car. You can put all that money in there but at the end of the day the car is still what it was the day it came out of the factory. Everything is written on that VIN number from the factory.

If you try to get rid off that car unless you found an enthusiast there is no way you can get any money back. Actually forget about getting money back, lets say you loose more. You will take a huge hit with the depreciation. Might as well return to stock and start selling parts separately. But again all those parts also lost value as soon as they were installed on your car. The car is also not original anymore since its been modified. Thats why you appreciate a car from the factory for a decent price with enough track capability and still can be a dd with everything original.

Current gtpp still provides that though, unless you are pro enough to push the limits of physics with that car. Is it the best on the market? Probably not but who cares. Is it good enough? Hack yeah!

 

[GOFAST]

There is also that magnaride aftermarket problem but looks like 2018 models will have that as an option. It is hard to give a car track ready shocks, springs and all but also expect it to behave a daily driven or highway cruiser. Magnaride makes that possible.

One other thing some people don't consider is the value of a car. You can put all that money in there but at the end of the day the car is still what it was the day it came out of the factory. Everything is written on that VIN number from the factory.

If you try to get rid off that car unless you found an enthusiast there is no way you can get any money back. Actually forget about getting money back, lets say you loose more. You will take a huge hit with the depreciation. Might as well return to stock and start selling parts separately. But again all those parts also lost value as soon as they were installed on your car. The car is also not original anymore since its been modified. Thats why you appreciate a car from the factory for a decent price with enough track capability and still can be a dd with everything original.

Current gtpp still provides that though, unless you are pro enough to push the limits of physics with that car. Is it the best on the market? Probably not but who cares. Is it good enough? Hack yeah!

Well said sir. The GTPP is certainly enough for me right now with my skill level or lack thereof. As has been said, I would rather save some money on the car purchase and use the savings to improve my driving skills through some instruction. I would rather be fast in my car than just be in a fast car, if that makes sense. Much more pride in being fast, than buying fast.

 

[1320']

A lot of people think that because XYZ car put down ABC time in so and so's hands..it must mean that's what the average driver is capable of.

It seems like the Camaro camp is a bit more prone to this. In real world terms GTPP and Gen 5 1LE are near equals, but I'd put the Gen 6 1LE ahead of the 1LE given equal, average drivers.

 

[MRGTX]

A lot of people think that because XYZ car put down ABC time in so and so's hands..it must mean that's what the average driver is capable of.

It seems like the Camaro camp is a bit more prone to this. In real world terms GTPP and Gen 5 1LE are near equals, but I'd put the Gen 6 1LE ahead of the 1LE given equal, average drivers.

I don't think that's true. If anything, I think people are assuming that their own skill is not a variable. If this is true, given a faster car you or I would be faster while driving it.

In a world of launch control, lightning fast automatics, etc. This idea is closer to reality than ever.

You could make a case that a hairy beast like a Z06 or Viper, while theoretically much quicker all around than most cars, they might require a lot more skill to extract that performance (so for example, you or I might be faster around a road course in a 1LE than a Z06...until we figured it out). That just doesn't hold up in this perpetual Camaro/Mustang comparison. These cars are very similar in every way.

As for thinking the Camaro camp is any different than this one in any significant way...get real. The demographics between Mustang owners and Camaro owners are pretty much interchangeable.

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