MMR OPG's

[50BMG]

Just an FYI to general audience reading this very informative thread and may be new to the Ford Mod Motor World and 5.0 Coyote (thanks to @socketman for starting the thread) - the stock OPG should be a consideration for upgrading and here’s a good article covering the “why” of OPG failures:
https://lmengines.com/pages/why-mod-motor-oil-pump-gears-and-timing-components-fail

Notes:
If the car is used hard or is more dedicated to track use (drag racing, road racing or auto-x), where the car sees excessive and sustained high RPM’s, the stock OPG should be upgraded no doubt.

If the car is hardly used, or may just be a daily, a highway runner or grocery go-getter, the Ford OPGs will usually suffice for many miles/years as designed.

OK, so I've made it all the way through this thread.
AWESOME JOB Socketman and great questions comments by all here!!!

I just bought (2 weekends ago) a 2020GT PP2 A10 tranny car (@ 6000miles on the odo). I bought it for the purpose of supercharging (looking at 3.0L Whipple Stage 2?), with the intent to get somewhere around 700RWHP and still be a reliable, mostly "street/summer" car.. Yea, it will see a few runs down the strip/year and maybe a weekend on a road-course every year or so for "fun"...

Being in the Detoilet MI. area

I'm also lucky enough to have friends like John & Elaine Vermeersch from Ford Racing/Total Performance. Jack Roush's shop is about 5 miles from my own warehouse and I've done runs at Milan Dragway alongside Jack's daughter and son in law before. I've also talked semi-extensively with the boys from Livernois over beers about building an earlier gen. Modular/Coyote while at a friends party one summer evening.
BUT, NOBODY, until recently, brought up the oil gear mods for a Coyote build until I talked with a local speed shop owner (Don @ Walsh Motorsports, Wixom MI.) who did some wonderful work on a few friends 2013-2014 GT500's.
He said, while it might not be 100% "necessary; if it was his car..." (and he himself owns a highly modded GT500) he would do the oil gear mods as part of my intended build.
Until this thread, there was very little info out there about this mod., so thanks again EVERYONE; this has been AWESOME for info!

I haven't even had my GT in the air yet to investigate, but stupid question; I assume that the motor/whole powertrain gets pulled to do this mod correctly? (Don't laugh at that, believe it or not, I've changed oil pans, even checked con-rod bearings on my 520CID stroked 385 block Cobra without having to do anything besides put the car up on jackstands and grab the wrenches!).

Question: What is the "normal" oil pressure range for a stock GT oil pump?
Granted, this is on the factory dash-mounted OP gauge, but with hot oil I see @15 PSI at idle and 40-50-ish while revving at @3000-4000rpms (I haven't looked what it reads at red line; watching the road at that point). Do those numbers say I have an issue that I should investigate even BEFORE strapping on a blower?

For only semi-frequent street flogging, and @700RWHP, should I go through the effort/expense?

From what it sounds like after reading this thread, the Coyote oil pump is driven off a gear on the crank snout (behind the timing cover). Do people always change this crank-gear along with the OP gears? Does that require messing with the timing setup or dropping the crank at all?
Sorry for the stoopid questions; trying to learn "Coyote". It's a slightly different language to me right now...
If you see my avatar, that is my other street car. I built the plant for that one too.
Give me an old Windsor, a 385 series or even an old FE block, heck, I've even been deep inside a few old school Mopar's engines before too.
But, being slightly different, I don't wanna mess this one up...

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[socketman]

Watch this video, you cant go wrong. Yes change the crank sprocket. My OP runs around 90 on a rip and 60ish hot idle. Factory gauge which i changed to an Ecoboost gauge set for the boost.

 

[CJJon]

The biggest PITA looks to be the oil pan on the Gen 3. You have to drop it (but not remove) and the little blobs of RTV look to be tricky.

 

[socketman]

The biggest PITA looks to be the oil pan on the Gen 3. You have to drop it (but not remove) and the little blobs of RTV look to be tricky.

Totally do able and easier than Gen 2 the inside pump bolt is miserable.

 

[Cobra Jet]

... <snip>

Question: What is the "normal" oil pressure range for a stock GT oil pump?
Granted, this is on the factory dash-mounted OP gauge, but with hot oil I see @15 PSI at idle and 40-50-ish while revving at @3000-4000rpms (I haven't looked what it reads at red line; watching the road at that point). Do those numbers say I have an issue that I should investigate even BEFORE strapping on a blower?

<snip>

The oil psi specs below is for a bone stock S550 Coyote 5.0 right from Ford:

That PSI info is also based upon the standard recommended oil for the 5.0 Coyote.


—-
here was the original thread too:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2018-mustang-gt-15-psi-oil-pressure-normal.109015/


Also to note:
Oil PSI in ANY engine will be dependent upon operating temps, oil viscosity and RPM.

 

[Slopoke]

The biggest PITA looks to be the oil pan on the Gen 3. You have to drop it (but not remove) and the little blobs of RTV look to be tricky.

It's not so bad of a job. You just need to be armed with a 12" 1/4" extension and a few shorter ones. You also need a true, IIRC 10mm 1/4" swivel socket, not a socket with universal. With the whole pan lowered, dabbing RTV, is easy.

 

[CJJon]

It's not so bad of a job. You just need to be armed with a 12" 1/4" extension and a few shorter ones. You also need a true, IIRC 10mm 1/4" swivel socket, not a socket with universal. With the whole pan lowered, dabbing RTV, is easy.

Thanks for the info. I do have all that is needed (and a cute little stubby 1/4" ratchet just in case).

 

[Cobra Jet]

Just came across this thread on the GT350 side of the house - thoughts on “Ported oil pump” design?
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/boundary-ported-oil-pump-gears.140074/

 

[socketman]

Just came across this thread on the GT350 side of the house - thoughts on “Porter oil pump” design?
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/boundary-ported-oil-pump-gears.140074/

These pumps are bullet proof with hardened gears , i really think its just another gimmick to differentiate Boundary from the rest plus you need to buy the hardened billet backing plate. Its all based on rpm and unless your spinning your engine to the moon walk away.

 

[50BMG]

Awesome Video Socketman/Richard...
If one could learn to speak French by screwing a French "Ho", I think I just humped the Coyote beotch by watching that video! LoL...

HOLY $hit! The oil pump is ON the crank snout! WTF! LoL...
Your right, if you are going to do it, change the freaking gear idiot! LoL... I didn't realize how it was all laid out, until now...

Personally, wouldn't it just be a F-ton easier to pull the whole power-train right out of the car to do everything that guy in that video was doing, instead of leaving it in the engine bay? Maybe with all the emissions/ECU/BS connections on modern engines I might be incorrect on that one, but I know back with my '67 Mustang I could have the motor/tranny free of the car and swinging by a chain in an hour all by myself (with some guidance/help during the actual "pull" of course). Honestly, I once changed the clutch/pressure plate in record time with that car by pulling it all out, doing it with the motor still on the cherry picker, and putting it all back in in one piece. There were no "hard to reach" bolts that way...
I guess the exponential number of electronic/physical connections on a motor with an ECU might make this assertion incorrect though...

Thanks for the pressure chart CobraJet! I guess my 2020 is not out of the normal OP range after all.

Socketman, you are hot idling with 60PSI OP? WoW! Does that high of pressure cause problems/make oil squirt from places it shouldn't?

 

[socketman]

Pulling the motor for this job would be counter productive. There are a few ways to do it, either out the bottom with trans and how ford recommends out the top. Pull blower/intake evacuate A/C etc just do it in the car not that difficult or have someone do it for you.

 

[50BMG]

One other thing I was was going to say in my original post to this thread, but that was already too long winded (like this one is also becoming). Have any of you guys entertained the thought of running zero-bypass oil filters in your cars??? Before you pooh-pooh this idea, hear me out...

I often help a retired Ford friend do engine installs/repairs on fellow Superformance Cobra owner's cars and unfortunately, a LOT of the sometimes severe internal engine damage we have seen happen to these cars (mostly Windsor blocks that have been bored/stroked to 420+ cubes, sometimes good old FE's and even quite a few 385 Series engines) could have been completely avoided with the use of a no-bypass filter.
Like in your case Richard, IF the metal shavings from your old oil pump were plentiful/bad enough to clog the filter, with a normal/bypassable filter, those shavings would have eventually been circulated throughout the engine when the filter flow was restricted enough and the valve inside the body allowed the bypass. Heck, with the 60-90 PSI pressures you are running, you may be bypassing the filter to some degree under normal throttle blips???

Now, of course, running a no bypass filter requires a bit more OP gauge watching while driving, but when/if something bad happens, NOTHING can ever leave the filter to go on and destroy other "stuff". The abnormal drop in oil pressure that you see on the gauge as the filter starts to plugs is your notice that something is rotten in Denmark and shutting it down fairly quickly is the best course of action...

I run a Canton/replacable element aluminum bodied type in my Superformance, and while I've never had a serious issue to cause this to happen in my car (knocking on wood), my friend HAS saved his motor from serious damage TWICE running the no-bypass filter type. He's running a 600-inch BEAST in his car though....

What do y'all think?

On the hardened OPG's I can see benefit of this inside a "pure race" motor. But honestly, for street applications, where oils changes are farther apart and generally include more cycles of abuse where something wrong can go unnoticed, the super hard gears could be "overkill".

 

[50BMG]

Pulling the motor for this job would be counter productive. There are a few ways to do it, either out the bottom with trans and how ford recommends out the top. Pull blower/intake evacuate A/C etc just do it in the car not that difficult or have someone do it for you.

Yea, I'm sure you are right; just a thought... I've honestly never pulled a motor with too many "add-ons" like you mentioned to know any different. Late 80's Chevy pickup is probably the extent of it.

 

[Frank]

After seeing on another thread someone talking about oil pump gears when I was replacing my short block I decided to check my oil pump gears and this was with a little over six thousand miles on them. I am also going to show the stock original pump gears with about the same mileage. To the vendors credit they did replace them and was told they were updated but I did not agree with their explanation that contamination dirt or something caused the wear.
Anyway I have a new set of gears because I went with Ford performance. The gear sitting on the Boundary set is the stock set I took out with about the same mileage maybe a little more.

 

[socketman]

I get to breathe a sigh of relief today, my results from my oil sample came back and we are good to go. Anyone pissing on Fram filters may want to reconsider, i have used them for 45 plus years never one issue. I bought myself an oil filter cutter and will continue to keep using Joe Gibbs Driven FR 5/50 and my regular scheduled maintenance. I now have some data and know what my gears are like and what to watch for.

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