Methanol tune + Nitromethane , any tuners would help me?

[Tiago G.]

I'm thinking about stepping up to a sleeved short block next year from either BES or MPR.

I have been dreaming for years about this, I basically wanna run straight methanol in my car (track tune only) or even add a mix of 5% nitromethane paste mix to it to make even more power per pound of boost to maximize my engine gains and to also supercharge the fuel in my car if you know what I mean, lol...

I do know alot about E-85, E-98 and E-100 ( this last one is what my cars run my entire life before I moved into North America 12 years ago) but I am by no means a tuner.
They have been running 100% Ethanol since 1979 in my former country with their turbos and modded cars and during that time and especially in the 90's when I grew up I always came across the fastest cars running methanol instead of pump E-100. It's incredible what this fuel can do and I see no reason why not give it a try because I would switch back to the gasoline tune right after the end of every race day to avoid any issues. It's not a Top fuel and Funny car only thing as most people think.

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[Woopaloop]

I'm thinking about stepping up to a sleeved short block next year from either BES or MPR.

I have been dreaming for years about this, I basically wanna run straight methanol in my car (track tune only) or even add a mix of 5% nitromethane paste mix to it to make even more power per pound of boost to maximize my engine gains and to also supercharge the fuel in my car if you know what I mean, lol...

I do know alot about E-85, E-98 and E-100 ( this last one is what my cars run my entire life before I moved into North America 12 years ago) but I am by no means a tuner.
They have been running 100% Ethanol since 1979 in my former country with their turbos and modded cars and during that time and especially in the 90's when I grew up I always came across the fastest cars running methanol instead of pump E-100. It's incredible what this fuel can do and I see no reason why not give it a try because I would switch back to the gasoline tune right after the end of every race day to avoid any issues. It's not a Top fuel and Funny car only thing as most people think.

The fueling requirements are a lot different, I mean you're talking a super low AFR. That means you have to run massive injectors and big lines with a lot of pumps. This might affect your driveability when you go between pump and race gas depending on how you setup.

People that go this route sometimes run two separate systems of fuel rails and injectors.

 

[Tiago G.]

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yep,
I'm thinking here that the ID 2000's would be a must with the triple fuel pump set up and probably those massive 10 or 12AN JPC fuel rails to go with the system as well.

You are right, I don't know how the car would drive on a regular street tune with the ID2000s. That would be up to the tuner to figure that out and adjust accordingly. My car was tuned by lund so it would be up to him and his team to take up this challenge. I think with the fuel pumps would be easier to adjust because the third one could come alive after let's say 3 psi of boost or so depending on the fuel requirements which again would be huge.

I'm also thinking that I should be able to eliminate the air to air intercooler and all the heavy piping which would save a lot of weight from the front end of the car. Methanol is like ice entering the combustion chamber, methanol is fuel and intercooler at the same time.

 

[Woopaloop]

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yep,
I'm thinking here that the ID 2000's would be a must with the triple fuel pump set up and probably those massive 10 or 12AN JPC fuel rails to go with the system as well.

You are right, I don't know how the car would drive on a regular street tune with the ID2000s. That would be up to the tuner to figure that out and adjust accordingly. My car was tuned by lund so it would be up to him and his team to take up this challenge. I think with the fuel pumps would be easier to adjust because the third one could come alive after let's say 3 psi of boost or so depending on the fuel requirements which again would be huge.

I'm also thinking that I should be able to eliminate the air to air intercooler and all the heavy piping which would save a lot of weight from the front end of the car. Methanol is like ice entering the combustion chamber, methanol is fuel and intercooler at the same time.

Yes but you will still need an intercooler for your pump gas setup.

 

[Rjames18]

Would be best to have a mechanical fuel pump with a fuel cell in the front of the motor. You would also have to drain every bit of fuel out of the tank, lines, and rails.
Your best bet would be to put a fuel cell in the car with its own pumps and a separate set of injectors that would spray when you go into boost.
That's how I would do it atleast.

 

[Woopaloop]

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yep,
I'm thinking here that the ID 2000's would be a must with the triple fuel pump set up and probably those massive 10 or 12AN JPC fuel rails to go with the system as well.

You are right, I don't know how the car would drive on a regular street tune with the ID2000s. That would be up to the tuner to figure that out and adjust accordingly. My car was tuned by lund so it would be up to him and his team to take up this challenge. I think with the fuel pumps would be easier to adjust because the third one could come alive after let's say 3 psi of boost or so depending on the fuel requirements which again would be huge.

I'm also thinking that I should be able to eliminate the air to air intercooler and all the heavy piping which would save a lot of weight from the front end of the car. Methanol is like ice entering the combustion chamber, methanol is fuel and intercooler at the same time.

It's definitely a big project, it's going to be very difficult and expensive. You're going to have to speak directly to someone who has done these setups before. It's hard to make a motor that fairs well on the street and can handle that kind of power.

If you're really serious in would reach out to some serious engine builders to help you, it's going to require a lot of custom work.

 

[Tiago G.]

Yes but you will still need an intercooler for your pump gas setup.

I can tell you that my pump gas setup is only to get from point A to point B and I never went more than 25 % throttle on the gas pedal on that tune. Besides that, I have asked them to limit the RPM to only 5500 on 93oct. On the E-85 tune on the other hand, It's all the power out and christmas tree on the dash, lol ! ....

 

[Tiago G.]

Would be best to have a mechanical fuel pump with a fuel cell in the front of the motor. You would also have to drain every bit of fuel out of the tank, lines, and rails.
Your best bet would be to put a fuel cell in the car with its own pumps and a separate set of injectors that would spray when you go into boost.
That's how I would do it atleast.

Even tough I like your idea a lot, I would be trying to keep it as simple as possible. Since it's already running on an alcohol fuel now, my plan would be this:

3 tunes:

1st: Pump gas 93 oct. tune , bum tune just to drive around (I never race or hit on the street) RPM limited at 5500 or less lol...

2nd: E85 tune, something like i have now and allows me to drive anywhere and also race when Ethanol is available.

3rd: Methanol, race tune,

My idea is to go from 1 to 2 to 3 when leaving home and from 3 to 2 to 1 when leaving the track. I was also thinking that I would never switch from 3 to 1 because it could be too violent of a change in tunes for methanol to gasoline. Instead, I would change from methanol to E-85 to make that "transition" smoother on the motor and without risking damage the engine. Then after I burn through some E-85 I would put gas in the tank flashing everything back to tune number 1 and the car would be ready to go back into the garage minimizing any risk of corrosion from the methanol.

Now, do you know if there is a difference in spark plugs and gap from E85- E98 to Methanol? Like I said, I never run the thing before but starting to believe that it could become hard to have all 3 fuels in different tunes working perfectly with the same plugs..

Forgot to tell you guys, I drive to and from the track, no towing. The track is ~ 150 miles from my house. It gives me enormous pride in having this car do all the work and run a number.

 

[Tiago G.]

It's definitely a big project, it's going to be very difficult and expensive. You're going to have to speak directly to someone who has done these setups before. It's hard to make a motor that fairs well on the street and can handle that kind of power.

If you're really serious in would reach out to some serious engine builders to help you, it's going to require a lot of custom work.

I have a twin pump fuel system now with Id 1000s and the great thing is that the provision for the 3rd pump is already on the hat of the system.
Not trying to break records or be the fastest out there, I'm still learning how to drive my car. However, I'm a horsepower junkie like many and I want my engine to make more power per pound of boost than ever before and looking to run the supercharger close to its limits with the most powerful fuel I can use in my car. in very simple words, I wanna try something new that has a proven track record and can squeeze the most HP out of my setup before I think about going back to turbos one day , E85, E98 is old to me now, borring, lmao...

Why do you say it would require a lot of custom work? Don't scare me... haha

 

[sigintel]

Buy a second street car?

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I say leave the s550 the way it is and buy a pro-mod.

 

[Jay-rod427]

Straight methanol will take more than id2000’s, and triple pump. Those are not even 200 lb per hour injectors. We run 850 lb per hour on a boosted big block with 20+ gallon per minute pump. And it’s only 3,200 rwhp. I’d say minimum boosted coyote 400 lb per hour injectors on alcohol. 5% nitromethane will blow even a built motor sky high the cylinder pressure becomes insane. Maybe at best run M5 methanol it supposedly is oxygenated with trace Nitro.

As others said E85 will do all a built coyote can handle and then some.

 

[Tiago G.]

Buy a second street car?

Already did!

 

[Tiago G.]

I say leave the s550 the way it is and buy a pro-mod.

No thank you and no $$$ to play at that level. Must play at a street mustang level... lol

 

[Tiago G.]

Straight methanol will take more than id2000’s, and triple pump. Those are not even 200 lb per hour injectors. We run 850 lb per hour on a boosted big block with 20+ gallon per minute pump. And it’s only 3,200 rwhp. I’d say minimum boosted coyote 400 lb per hour injectors on alcohol. 5% nitromethane will blow even a built motor sky high the cylinder pressure becomes insane. Maybe at best run M5 methanol it supposedly is oxygenated with trace Nitro.

As others said E85 will do all a built coyote can handle and then some.

It won't even be coming close to that HP level. maybe 1000-1200 rwhp max is what I was thinking. NO turbos! It must be done with the supercharger I have in the car or a YSI billet wheel upgrade. Remember, street car driven to and from the track, not a dedicated track car, love that but I don't want that for now, so the demands you mentioned won't even scratch the set up you mention which is triple the power of what I intend to make.

You bring a very good point with the nitro as I was looking deeper into it and seems not safe to run anything below 30% because it becomes way too unstable and explosive. Read that people go through a lot of motors till they find the sweet spot % wise. It really looks like the sweet spot is above 90% ( one of the reasons why the badasses run that thing at 98%) so that automatically makes out of question for me.

I was looking into the M5 from VP and it looks awesome!!!

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