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Manuals Are Losers

Balr14

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I guess we're getting as close as we're going to get here.

Though I do think the "M.O." sword has been cutting both ways here (what? you don't want to get the AT so you will be faster???).


Norm
Your arguments are the rationalizations of somebody who is just highly resistant to change. If your car isn't "fun" without a manual transmission, find a different car.
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Charlemagne

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I have driven a Jag with the ZF 8 speed and I wouldn't be surprised if it replaces most of the DCT transmissions out there. In manual mode, the ZF changes gears as fast as the PDK and costs far less.
Yup, I tested it recently in BMW 540i and I didn't even notice it shifts. In automatic mode it didn't even show what gear it is in. Not sure how expensive ZF gearbox is as a part, but I'm sure PDK costs more than whole Coyote engine 😁 Gotta compare the ZF in 540i in manual mode again once I'll have my Mach 1 with ugpraded 10R80.
 

ICU812

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Your arguments are the rationalizations of somebody who is just highly resistant to change. If your car isn't "fun" without a manual transmission, find a different car.
It is more than just being fun, it is having control of what the car is doing. you pick and hold the gear.
Even in manual mode of newer automatics it will up shift if it thinks holding that gear will harm the drive train .
You don't want a high powered car switching gears in a turn or under braking when driving at or near the traction limit.
Heck even a low powered one this can end badly.
 

Arthonon

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It is more than just being fun, it is having control of what the car is doing. you pick and hold the gear.
Even in manual mode of newer automatics it will up shift if it thinks holding that gear will harm the drive train .
You don't want a high powered car switching gears in a turn or under braking when driving at or near the traction limit.
Heck even a low powered one this can end badly.
OK, just have to step in and say that this is completely inaccurate for the A10. As far as I know, it will not upshift in manual mode no matter what. It will downshift to keep the engine from dying, but it will never upshift, even at redline.
 

ICU812

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OK, just have to step in and say that this is completely inaccurate for the A10. As far as I know, it will not upshift in manual mode no matter what. It will downshift to keep the engine from dying, but it will never upshift, even at redline.
Bouncing off the rpm limiter is no better.
We had a rental 2.3t with a10 and it would upshift with the shifter in "s" .
I have not taken delivery of my new mustang yet with the HHP. to know if it was just that car or not. but It would not hold a gear, it upshifted at 4900 rpm. no matter what you did or what drive mode it was in.
It was a 2019 2.3t convert.
Our a10 equipped truck will only not upshift if you locked out all gears above the one you are in. if in 4th and don't want it upshifting, you have to lock out 5/6/7/8/9/10.
 

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Arthonon

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Bouncing off the rpm limiter is no better.
We had a rental 2.3t with a10 and it would upshift with the shifter in "s" .
I have not taken delivery of my new mustang yet with the HHP. to know if it was just that car or not. but It would not hold a gear, it upshifted at 4900 rpm. no matter what you did or what drive mode it was in.
It was a 2019 2.3t convert.
Our a10 equipped truck will only not upshift if you locked out all gears above the one you are in. if in 4th and don't want it upshifting, you have to lock out 5/6/7/8/9/10.
Maybe you are just not familiar with it? I am not sure based on the information in your post. If you put it in S, and then manually shift with a paddle, it is in manual mode and will not upshift automatically after that. To take it out of manual shift, you hold the upshift paddle for 2 seconds or so.

And I am not sure how bouncing off the rev-limiter with the auto not upshifting is any different than bouncing off the rev-limiter with a manual and not upshifting.
 

emcmtony

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Maybe you are just not familiar with it? I am not sure based on the information in your post. If you put it in S, and then manually shift with a paddle, it is in manual mode and will not upshift automatically after that. To take it out of manual shift, you hold the upshift paddle for 2 seconds or so.

And I am not sure how bouncing off the rev-limiter with the auto not upshifting is any different than bouncing off the rev-limiter with a manual and not upshifting.
I think the difference for me is when I am driving a manual I know I have to shift up and down as needed. When I do paddles for my SUV, I know I am in the SUV and space out from time to time and don't shift when needed. It will downshift for you which is not what I want, but it does it anyway. I like downshifting most about shifting the car.
 

Norm Peterson

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Your arguments are the rationalizations of somebody who is just highly resistant to change. If your car isn't "fun" without a manual transmission, find a different car.
I can't think of any different car with an automatic transmission that I'd find much fun in driving. I'm just not into having things done for me that I can do all by myself (and can keep up with in real time). Where transmission choice is concerned, the Cliff's Notes version is that it really is that simple.

I've never really cared for the way automatic transmissions work, or the ways they'd force changes in the way I'd naturally drive a car under identical situations. I don't want to be subtly encouraged to relax even a little bit when I'm behind the wheel.

I'd drive a 25 year old 15-second Mazda 626 with MT over an 11 second car with automatic (other than maybe once or twice with the faster car to see what all the fuss was about). This comes from doing a lot of thinking, knowing myself, and trusting my own instincts over opinions from without. It's served me well over the years, with most of the few regrets I've had showing up in cases where I temporarily set that approach aside.

It's not that I'm resistant to all change. But for any such changes to take hold, they have to pass my own personal evaluation of their benefits and downsides as they'd affect me.


Norm
 
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Arthonon

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I think the difference for me is when I am driving a manual I know I have to shift up and down as needed. When I do paddles for my SUV, I know I am in the SUV and space out from time to time and don't shift when needed. It will downshift for you which is not what I want, but it does it anyway. I like downshifting most about shifting the car.
Well, again, the only time the A10 will downshift is if the engine is about to die. If you would normally downshift before, say, 1200 RPM, then you probably wouldn't have to worry about it downshifting on its own.

Spacing out is just something that would have to go away over time. I did that too, but am getting better at it.
 

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Arthonon

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I can drive an A10 just like a manual, even taking my foot of the gas between shifts.
But with no-lift-shift, you could keep your foot on the gas and *still* be driving it just like a manual :)
 

Balr14

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But with no-lift-shift, you could keep your foot on the gas and *still* be driving it just like a manual :)
That was not an option in any car I have owned. "Power" shifting was really hard on the clutch and drive train and that was all we had.
 

bluebeastsrt

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You never had me - you never had your car. Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should! You're lucky that 100-shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake. Almost had me?
 

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You never had me - you never had your car. Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should! You're lucky that 100-shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake. Almost had me?
Such a silly franchise. What about the NA eclipse "with the turbo".......
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