Mach 1 vs Camaro SS 1LE

[shogun32]

I just really dislike Camaros

it would seem so. Did the big bad Camaro touch you in an impolite place when you were an innocent youth?

Nothing against the Caddy you want, actually a cool sports sedan!

So Ford, got an answer for GM's entry? Mustang 4-door perhaps? (jabbing with sharp sticks is fun)

PS don't sweat it man. I'm secure in my love for both Mustang and Camaro. I've managed to bottle up the matter and anti-matter so cataclysmic oblivion is avoided.

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[ChitownStang]

it would seem so. Did the big bad Camaro touch you in an impolite place when you were an innocent youth?

I don’t like to talk about it

 

[GreenS550]

This debate is quite interesting. I remember where my love for Fords came from. My dad worked 72 hours a week at a shoe repairing store that he owned back in the early 60s. The neighbor across the street worked at Chevrolet and beat the crap out of his kids. Although maybe not his fault because he was in Reading during world war II in the Pacific theater he was a cruel SOB. His kids are of a similar age one ended up in prison long-term but the others were all screwed up and devious. So he was the Chevy guy in my family were the Ford guys. So that's what I remember growing up. It isn't logical it's just emotional. Then when I think of Ford having to suffer through the '08-09 and 10 horrible markets but not selling their soul to the government made me a customer for life.

On top of that Ford's technology is superior to any other us automaker by far. Back in the early '70s when I would drag race the biggest idiots always drove Chevys and that was a fact. Of course Chevrolet dominated the markets back then so it makes sense because they owned the US market. The truth is Chevy makes some nice stuff, it's just not for me.

I admit, I will not own the best vehicles because I have loyalty. Loyalty to my wife, loyalty for my family, loyalty to my God. It just doesn't matter that something slightly better on a piece of paper it's what I want to own and I'm an American and I can buy what I want.

 

[13GetThere]

Well that proves it. May as well close down all the racing tracks and turn them all into golf courses because it's been proven that the Camaro is better than the Mustang in every way so they may as well not show up for the race.
I'm so demoralized that I'm going to sell my Mustang GT PP2 to my grandmother because she likes slow cars, and use the money to buy bus tickets. I could get anywhere I wanted to go faster on a bus than driving a Mustang.
I mean the PP2 was 1.27 seconds slower than the SS/1LE on THAT track, and the Magazine said the Mustang was like 3.2 days slower than the Camaro. It's probably slower than that, but they gave up waiting for it to cross the finish line.
And we all know that watching any car race where Camaros and Mustangs are racing are going to be boring because the Camaro is going to win every time.
Now if you all will excuse me, I'm going to go beat my head against the dumb ass wall then call my grandmother, and hope I don't come out in the hole.
After all, we all know that racing has nothing to do with the driver. It's all about the car.

 

[shogun32]

I admit, I will not own the best vehicles because I have loyalty

I have no loyalty to any manufacturer or brand.

Nissan pickup, Mazda car, Mitsu car, Pontiac car, Ford pickup, possible Chevy or Dodge pickup, VW car, and the Mustang, and Camaro. Bikes from suzuki, ktm, aprilia, ducati, kawasaki, honda, Triumph, and yamaha. I narrowly missed buying a MuZ. Note the painfully obvious missing brand - BMW be it 2 wheels or 4.

The only reason I bought a SS/1LE was having bought 2 Mustangs in quick succession I read an article and decided to check them out. I could have easily gone years without giving the SS a single thought. But just 1 test drive was sufficient to convince me it was the better handling car and I wanted to explore it further. Is it better on all fronts? Nope.

Most people have the good sense not to buy 4 new cars in 1 year and play DD roulette.

 

[OnThree]

Opinion. Superior is a vague term. I consider visibility, RPM potential and ride quality as well. Most, in fact nearly all buyers of a Mustang or Camaro don't seriously track the car. In that situation, yes, the Camaro may be better. But to say it is superior requires qualifiers.

The reason the Camaro isn't selling, though cheaper, is because most actual buyers don't agree with you. Not a slam, just facts in a capitalistic society. On top of that many, like me, are offended by GM's bankruptcy and mandate that they take my tax dollars and bail out a poorly managed company.

The 1LE is superior on track, which is what both of these cars are marketed towards. It's that simple.

That last line about bailout is just laughable, one of the most fanboy things you can say to try to justify why your brand is better.

 

[OnThree]

Well that proves it. May as well close down all the racing tracks and turn them all into golf courses because it's been proven that the Camaro is better than the Mustang in every way so they may as well not show up for the race.
I'm so demoralized that I'm going to sell my Mustang GT PP2 to my grandmother because she likes slow cars, and use the money to buy bus tickets. I could get anywhere I wanted to go faster on a bus than driving a Mustang.
I mean the PP2 was 1.27 seconds slower than the SS/1LE on THAT track, and the Magazine said the Mustang was like 3.2 days slower than the Camaro. It's probably slower than that, but they gave up waiting for it to cross the finish line.
And we all know that watching any car race where Camaros and Mustangs are racing are going to be boring because the Camaro is going to win every time.
Now if you all will excuse me, I'm going to go beat my head against the dumb ass wall then call my grandmother, and hope I don't come out in the hole.
After all, we all know that racing has nothing to do with the driver. It's all about the car.

This guy thinks his local HPDE is "racing"

But I do agree with you on the driver comment, these cars are so close the average person isn't going to be able to tell on track. That's if they go to the track.

 

[DEDXXXX]

I loved my ‘12 Dodge SRT8 392. I loved my ‘08 G35. I loved my ‘92 Honda Civic Si. Never gave a shit that other cars were faster around whatever track. There is zero way I’d be able to notice a 1 second difference in track times. The Civic had about 120 Hp and weighed about 2,300 lbs. it was a blast.

 

[GreenS550]

The 1LE is superior on track, which is what both of these cars are marketed towards. It's that simple.

That last line about bailout is just laughable, one of the most fanboy things you can say to try to justify why your brand is better.

You know nothing about the bailout obviously and it doesn't matter to you that's fine. You're probably a socialist that's up to you. But I work hard for my money and I don't like it being spent on a company that's irresponsible and poorly managed.

However most people that buy the mustang Mach 1 will never track it. That's facts not opinion. You need to look at the marketing materials and who its marketed to. People that pay $60,000 for a car they likely will only keep a few years are not a 28-year-old that's struggling to make a house payment.
That's the problem with these forums too many people speaking about things they know nothing about.

You might know about the performance aspects I'll give you that, but the marketing you have no idea. The proof is that most people are not buying Camaros no matter how much you might like them and no matter how objective you are in their performance aspects.

The Camaro again will likely not be produced by general motors because of low sales, unless Uncle Sam bails them out again which by the way they have mentioned that they would like more money from the federal government. They'll never get a cent from me. They just don't understand the customer and what the customer wants except for the very extreme group who are so small that they can't make the product pay. That's simple economics and area I know a great deal about.

I'm purchasing the Mach 1 because I want to. Additionally if I don't keep it long I'll make for a great deal somebody buying a used car further helping the economy. Don't buy it if you don't want to.

In the long run they're just automobiles and steel. By what you want.

Mustang 6G is just going down the road of more complainers and whiners than people that really want to talk objective stuff about cars. And I'm an old man time for me to get off of here.

 

[Somepothead]

Well that proves it. May as well close down all the racing tracks and turn them all into golf courses because it's been proven that the Camaro is better than the Mustang in every way so they may as well not show up for the race.
I'm so demoralized that I'm going to sell my Mustang GT PP2 to my grandmother because she likes slow cars, and use the money to buy bus tickets. I could get anywhere I wanted to go faster on a bus than driving a Mustang.
I mean the PP2 was 1.27 seconds slower than the SS/1LE on THAT track, and the Magazine said the Mustang was like 3.2 days slower than the Camaro. It's probably slower than that, but they gave up waiting for it to cross the finish line.
And we all know that watching any car race where Camaros and Mustangs are racing are going to be boring because the Camaro is going to win every time.
Now if you all will excuse me, I'm going to go beat my head against the dumb ass wall then call my grandmother, and hope I don't come out in the hole.
After all, we all know that racing has nothing to do with the driver. It's all about the car.

Ya, I had to take the mustang over the camero still, because I could only fit 2 dead bodies in the trunk of the Camaro, and I could easily fit 4 dead bodies in the trunk of the mustang.

So just for the record: The Camaro is not better in every way, because I cant stash as many dead bodies in the trunk as i need to, and taking multiple trips to the crime scene is too risky.

 

[13GetThere]

Since we're comparing apples to oranges and bashing those slow slow Mustangs like the GT500 that are being beaten by turbo charge 2 cylinder Camaros, watch this and listen closely to the comments made at the end of the video by the HPDE race car driver.

 

[13GetThere]

The 1LE is superior on track, which is what both of these cars are marketed towards. It's that simple.

That last line about bailout is just laughable, one of the most fanboy things you can say to try to justify why your brand is better.

I'm with GreenS550 on this one as well. My first Mustang was a 2013 GT, Brembo pkg. and one of the reasons that played heavily in the decision between Chevy, Dodge, and Ford was the bail out money. It wasn't the only reason I chose the Mustang, but it was one reason.
I don't want to, and won't make this about politics. There are 3 Fords setting in my driveway. One could have been a Subaru, but the dealer's service dept. were just thieves as far as I'm concerned. When my wife and I eliminated Subaru, Ford was the only alternative left for her new car, and it was her decision.

 

[OnThree]

You know nothing about the bailout obviously and it doesn't matter to you that's fine. You're probably a socialist that's up to you. But I work hard for my money and I don't like it being spent on a company that's irresponsible and poorly managed.

However most people that buy the mustang Mach 1 will never track it. That's facts not opinion. You need to look at the marketing materials and who its marketed to. People that pay $60,000 for a car they likely will only keep a few years are not a 28-year-old that's struggling to make a house payment.
That's the problem with these forums too many people speaking about things they know nothing about.

You might know about the performance aspects I'll give you that, but the marketing you have no idea. The proof is that most people are not buying Camaros no matter how much you might like them and no matter how objective you are in their performance aspects.

The Camaro again will likely not be produced by general motors because of low sales, unless Uncle Sam bails them out again which by the way they have mentioned that they would like more money from the federal government. They'll never get a cent from me. They just don't understand the customer and what the customer wants except for the very extreme group who are so small that they can't make the product pay. That's simple economics and area I know a great deal about.

I'm purchasing the Mach 1 because I want to. Additionally if I don't keep it long I'll make for a great deal somebody buying a used car further helping the economy. Don't buy it if you don't want to.

In the long run they're just automobiles and steel. By what you want.

Mustang 6G is just going down the road of more complainers and whiners than people that really want to talk objective stuff about cars. And I'm an old man time for me to get off of here.

Damn, you triggered.

You don't understand how taxes work obviously but go ahead and get your panties in a wad junior

Complaining? I'm not the one bitching and moaning about taxes and bailouts? Real objective car stuff there, fucking genius

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

There's a 2019 1LE with 9000 miles on it for sale 10 minutes from my house. I must be a shallow superficial person but even though it slightly outperforms all the Mustangs, I can't even make myself go test drive it because I can't get past the looks (from outside OR inside, I have test driven a base SS). Its the perfect car analogy to a blind date who is described as "she's got a great personality." Love the wheel but just can't get past the body. I like taking my car to shows and people just walk right past 1LE's but are interested in Mustangs. My 19 yr old son's observation of the 1LE is, it doesn't look much different than a regular car, and that black hood looks stupid. Granted, one person's opinion. It's kind of similar with C8 Corvettes - better performance but I'd rather have a Mach 1 because you can't get a manual in the C8. But if you want a dedicated track car it would like a no-brainer to get a 1LE.

This has not been my experience, personally, with my Mustang. My 2018 Mustang GT PP1 was a good looking car that completely blended in at car shows because it was one of many S550 Mustang GTs there. The only Mustangs that get attention are GT350s and GT500s. I received compliments on the GT in the wild from time to time, but never at a car show. My ZL1 on the other hand...strangers stop to take pictures, random people take pics of it while I'm driving (a lady in her minivan this week), and strangers walking by stop to take pics when its parked at my gym. All in the 3 months since I've owned it. An SS 1LE probably doesn't get the same reactions or attention as a ZL1, but I never once had a stranger take a pic of my GT in almost 2.5 years of ownership either.

Gee, at my age a daily is something to celebrate


The only reason to drop a model is poor sales, so why the poor sales. Is it quality, or appeal, or something else that makes the Camaro fall short in sales.
Now the SS/1LE may be a better track car than any other Mustang out there, but they have to sell cars to stay in the game.

IMO having owned both a 2018 Mustang GT PP1 and a '21 ZL1, the reason Camaros don't sell as well as Mustangs is because the Camaro isn't quite as practical as a Mustang in ways that the average consumer wants. Mustang has slightly better ingress/egress (shorter doors, higher seats), more glass or less sheet metal on the roof making the Mustang feel more airy inside and improving visibility, slightly better rear visibility due to the downward slope of the trunk lid, and a larger trunk and trunk opening. The Mustang is a taller car, which helps open it up a little as well. Also, I can see why the Mustang styling appeals to more people on average as well. It has a beautiful fastback shape, and a less risky/ less polarizing front end design.

Most track capable 5.0 is what they claimed. That does not equal “track car.” Just because people on forums want to bench race it against the 1le does not mean that Ford set out to beat that particular car on the track. In fact I would challenge you to find one mention by Ford that the camaro had anything to do with the focus of the Mach 1’s development. as I’ve said on here before, Ford has the luxury of not caring about what Chevrolet does with the camaro. It is irrelevant at this point from a sales perspective, which after all, is the goal of the Ford motor company.

I doubt Ford will come out and give props to its biggest competitor; that it had to benchmark a less expensive car and still came out behind performance-wise despite costing more, as indicated by the Motortrend article previously linked.

Yes, the Mach 1 is a sweet car - great looking, good performance, but a great performance deal it is not considering it's main competitor has been doing it cheaper for several years.

I think it's ridiculous that a well optioned Mach 1 w/ handling package costs as much as a ZL1, which is already fully loaded.

 

[WildHorse]

Opinion. Superior is a vague term. I consider visibility, RPM potential and ride quality as well.

Well the Camaro is superior in this case. Personally I have zero interest in the Camaro, yes I drove one, yes I hate the interior layout and visibility, but I also recognized when Ford was out done, and in this case, Chevy out did Ford.

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