M6G Suspension Nirvana

Discussion in 'Suspension, Brakes & Chassis' started by H1shawn1, May 19, 2019.

  1. H1shawn1

    H1shawn1 Well-Known Member

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    #1 H1shawn1, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    tl: dr For automotive bliss follow the suggested parts list. You're Welcome.

    The Parts List:
    frpp struts M-18000-F
    bmr sp083 springs
    GT350 f sway (FR3Z-5482-J)
    f sway Bushing (FR3Z-5484-C)
    Steeda Caster Camber Plates
    BMR Camber Bolts

    Steeda Bumpsteer Kit
    Steeda lateral and tension links w/ bearing
    Steeda Ultra light K brace
    Ford PP Strut tower brace
    Ford PP Cowl Extension
    Ford PP Firewall Extension Panel

    BMR CB005 Cradle Lockout Kit
    BMR CB762 IRS Bracing
    FRPP toe knuckle bearing M-5A460-M
    BMR RLCA Bearing BK081
    BMR Vertical Links TCA048
    BMR Rear Shock Mounts

    Additional add ons contributing to how good my car now feels:

    Steeda 2 piece front rotors
    Vs forged 19x11 305 30 fronts
    Vs Forged 20x11.5 305 30 rears
    BFG Potenza S007a tires


    Let me start off by saying that this is my first time doing a full suspension overhaul. Previous cars I've owned I only sought to change suspension parts when I was going after a certain look. With the S550 I knew the first thing that needed to go was the truck like ride height , so I went off and bought CJPP springs, installed them, and got aligned shortly after I loved the look and was perfectly content to go on with visual mods with the ultimate goal of eventually adding boost so that the car would one day be, "as fast as it looked."

    I would frequent this forum keeping up with the 5.0 engine mods and forced induction pages while occasionally dipping my toe into the suspension, brakes, and chassis sub forum.

    As someone who tries to learn as much as possible regarding this platform I was overwhelmed by the amount of information that was available regarding the suspension. I'd read thread after thread discussing various upgrades, see some borderline obnoxious claims by manufacturers, and see pitfalls from poor combinations of parts. It became obvious that the suspension of these cars takes more then just a willingness to spend $, it requires a very good knowledge base and/or a great plan.

    Over the course of a couple of years I started to notice a few peeps who's posts in this sub forum stood out to me.

    Here are the peeps who's posts I found most helpful in guiding my build:

    @TheLion
    @BmacIL
    @Norm Peterson
    @MustangCollector
    @J.P.B.
    @Bluemustang (who's build I followed most closely)

    I can't thank you guys enough for sharing your experiences. In a reply post to this thread I'll share links to the threads I found most helpful, and you will see these guys commenting numerous times in most of them. They all have done a tremendous job of articulating the what, why, and how.

    Before going any further I think it's important to point out that part of what I found so appealing about this setup is that I have almost no interest in having an adjustable suspension and spending lap after lap dialing it in. I'm not trying to set any course records, but rather aiming for a set and forget solution. The brilliance in this combination is it's just that, it's plug and play.

    Now for the important stuff, how's it ride. In a word, awesome. The car feels so much more connected to the road. Once you take away the body roll and the OEM suspensions tendency to float you get something truly speciall. The car feels so stable that it's always begging for more speed. I got the opportunity to drive it in a little bit of rain, and it was begging for more. I couldn't believe how stable everything felt, how well the car communicated, and how all that added up to me as a driver feeling more and more confident because of it. I no longer have to worry about upsetting the car in a way that it might sneak up on me, the feedback is immediate, and I LOVE it.

    I'm sorry if this sounds too good to be true, if you are skeptical then I suggest you start reading through some of the threads I'll link in the post below. If you read as much of it as I have you'll start to notice a trend of Suspension Nirvana that occurs whenever a person first experiences the SP083 springs with adequate struts. Especially pay close attention to @MustangCollector 's reaction when he first tries BMR linear springs after exhaustively trying just about every other combination he could get his hands on. Those new to his thread might find it a tad too long but I'll list the post # for you to read his reaction after first trying a combination involving a competent strut and a BMR linear spring. (Although I suggest reading as much of it as you can since it will give you a better idea of just how particular he is, it really helps you appreciate how glowingly he speaks of his similar suspension setup.)

    A lot of you are concerned about NVH, and so am I. As far as new noise, there isn't any that I can tell. My exhaust is loud, so it's very likely that I wouldn't notice slight changes to noise, but I would notice anything significant. As far as vibration, none. Now on to harshness, this is something I've been struggling with. How do you explain that it's different than before without overstating it. I daily my car, so this is something I was very worried about. I'm a lot like a lot of you in that I want race car exhaust, race car acceleration, and race car handling without race car sacrifices. I'm happy to report that this setup is completely doable on a daily driver, but I've been driving myself crazy trying to compare every single road bump that I experience now with how I remember it feeling from before. Bumps are slightly stiffer, but not irritatingly so. I'm trying to take @J.P.B. 's advice and experimenting with tire pressure, but from a car enjoyment perspective I don't think it's absolutely necessary. I just want to see if I notice a positive difference from lowering the pressure. (I'll be sure to update the thread if I do.)

    Other things worthy of note. I now have had two square width tire setups and two staggered setups. Squared is infinitely better. The steering just feels so much lighter and responsive when it's not fighting a wider rear tire. Before buying this Potenza setup I had a lead on some 345 rear tires at a reduced price, I mentioned it in a PM to @BmacIL and he strongly suggested I avoid it. He was correct on this. If you can run squared do it, you won't regret it. Above I mention my wheels, and front rotors. I only do this because of the tremendous benefits I've experienced by removing unsprung mass from up front. So much communication from the car comes through the steering wheel, and if you haven't had personal experience with it yet you'll be surprised at how much of a difference a few pounds here and there in unsprung mass will make. Tramlining, before all the suspension upgrades and new tires I was running 295 35 19s up front and had a lot of it, so much so that when I gave my brother in law a ride he could see me working the steering wheel and asked about it. I'm a fairly easy going guy, and decided it was just something that was going to be there as long as I was obsessed with stuffing the largest tire I could up front. I am not sure why, but it is massively improved now. I'm no longer fighting the steering wheel, and it's almost at the point now where I can't even tell I'm running a 305 tire up front. Last, but not least, this thing accelerates better (as to be expected with all the IRS upgrades) and it's a good thing because I can't wait to get it up to speed and throw it into the next corner now.

    It's getting late, so I'll end the post here. I didn't get much of a chance to proofread, but I'll go through it a couple times over the next day or so. Thanks for reading.
     
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  2. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    Very happy to hear that you are loving it! Carefully selected and complimentary parts really do add up to something special to drive.


    I'd also make sure to give a shout to @Rebellion as a fellow pioneer of the spring rate combination.
     
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  3. Roadway 5.0

    Roadway 5.0 Strassejager

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    @MustangCollector installed BMR SP080 springs with Steeda adjustable dampers in the post you referenced. A significant difference from the SP083s on monotube dampers that you installed —your setup is about 40-50% stiffer.

    Glad you like what you installed though. For the record, I run a setup about 10% less stiff than yours (Ultralites) and I think it’s the cat’s meow—I’m sure a bit extra oopmh wouldn’t kill me, but it may be too much for some. Different strokes for different folks.
     
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    H1shawn1

    H1shawn1 Well-Known Member

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    #5 H1shawn1, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    Thank you for adding this to the post. I struggled with that paragraph a little and rather then significantly edit it in the future I'll piggyback here on your observation.

    Seeing @MustangCollector so satisfied in a setup is what finally motivated me to get serious about developing a plan of my own, prior to that post the idea of coming up with a satisfactory suspension for the S550 seemed to be a dreadful experience that could drive a person mad while also emptying one's bank account. I know that he can be neurotic when it comes to this stuff, but it wasn't until he found something that he liked that I knew that I could find something I like.

    Part of what I remember being so brilliant about that thread was how well he did of explaining what he was looking for, and the conditions he was dealing with. Living in an area of Texas with rather good roads, plus having a higher tolerance for some of the things he described as being irritating (I'm obviously doing a lot of paraphrasing here on a thread that I mostly read over a year ago) made it necessary for me to continue looking for what would be my suspension nirvana, rather then just follow his recommendation.
     
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    H1shawn1

    H1shawn1 Well-Known Member

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    #6 H1shawn1, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    On to this point regarding stiffness since I cover it so briefly up top. My goal here is to write to the suspension novice, since that's who I most closely identify with. (I just don't have enough experience with suspension mods to claim anything else). I'll say that for me the question isn't how much does this stiffness differ from a competing stiffness, but rather how stiff is too stiff?

    Since doing the mods I've given two ride alongs. One to my wife, and the other I allowed my buddy to drive since he has some racing experience plus some HPD instructing experience. Before I asked my buddy he commented that he was surprised at how in control and not hard the car felt. With my wife I told her how the changes I had made could have a negative impact on ride quality and asked her multiple times if she thought the car felt "hard." Part of my glowingly review of my setup is a direct result from the positive responses that I got from each of them.

    Hopefully soon I'll be able to get another friend behind the wheel who used to own a GT350R and spent quite a bit of time on the track with it. Looking forward to getting his feedback, and sharing it with y'all.
     
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  6. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    It's all about control :rockon:
     
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  7. Rebellion

    Rebellion Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot @BmacIL ! I've been almost forgotten by the forum...or maybe it's the other way around:like:

    Hey @H1shawn1, great write up! Saw this thread mentioned in our FB group, good stuff. If you don't mind, who are you using for alignment and bumpsteer setup? I haven't found a reliable and knowledgeable shop, other than our friend in Porsche who no longer does that.
     
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  8. bnightstar

    bnightstar Well-Known Member

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    Great thread. Since I'm going to start this journey ether this summer or during winter season (more time to work on car than drive it) this will be a good guide. My plan was actually to follow the FPRS Mustang GT build in terms of Suspension basically getting the whole Ford Performance FR3 Kit and put 285/35/19 all around and call it a day + eventually add Steeda Stop the Hop kit as this seams reasonable as well. Goal is a DD with HPDE in mind without to much investment. How you think this will workout ?
     
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    H1shawn1

    H1shawn1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for reading through it, I hope it helps. As for your question I think @Bluemustang explains it best, just go to the below link and read post #7. On whatever you decide keep us posted, I've done my best to learn via other people's experiences and look forward to hearing yours.

    https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/bluemustang’s-gt-road-car-build.107922/

    Post #7
     
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  10. bnightstar

    bnightstar Well-Known Member

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    But his. car is base and from what I read he installed the Performance Pack struts and shocks (which I have) and not the Track Handling Struts and Shocks ? Or did I not read it correctly ?
     
  11. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    I had the FP shocks and struts FWIW. I had essentially everything in the FP Track kit at the time except for the sway bars which were BMR.
     
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  12. bnightstar

    bnightstar Well-Known Member

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    so if I understand correctly you only suggest to. change the Springs that come with the Track Kit to the BMR ones and call it a day ?
     
  13. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    Well, I hesitate to simply suggest you do this or do that because a lot of it is personal preference. But I did a lot of research on the subject and made the switch for specific reasons.

    FWIW, I drove on the FP dampers and track springs for over a year. So I am well versed in how it behaves. I also have a buddy who has the full track kit including the sway bars. It's a good bit of kit and rides awesome. I've also had BMR SP080s and Koni Sports on my car before this, so I have experience with that.

    If you're going to be pushing the car hard, I recommend doing some other suspension upgrades as well. I would look into at least BMR CB005 or CB762 and possibly upgrade the front control arm bearings. Removing a lot of the deflection in the rubber bushings increases confidence.
     
  14. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    @H1shawn1 - How do you like those Potenza S007A tires? Those are on my list for possible future tires.
     
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    H1shawn1

    H1shawn1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm very happy with them, but I have less then 500 miles on them so it's still too early to tell. I can tell you that my one experience in the rain with them was great, I was really impressed with how well they performed and along with the other suspension mods the car was way more composed in rainy conditions then it was on MPSS with the stock suspension. I know the MPSS's to be amoung the best in the rain so that difference was mainly suspension related, but I didn't feel like the Potenza's we're holding me back in those conditions at all.
     
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  16. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    Yeah it's amazing how much more confidence you have in the car in ALL conditions when it's sorted well, not just dry ones.
     
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  17. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    Nice!! You have the PP with the Torsen diff don't you? That probably helps a bunch. I am getting ready to put one on my car. My car is kinda scary in the rain, and I do not think it is tires. I've heard feedback on the Torsen that it takes a car from scary to fairly easy to control in the rain, so I'm hoping that is the case.

    Your suspension setup and mine is what I call - the secret sauce. It's no surprise to me that the SP083 springs and FP dampers work well together. Spring rates very similar to GT350R, quality monotube dampers (and minimum drop on the springs). And the IRS components make it more confidence inspiring when really pushing the car. So much so I cant really exploit on the street, so I need to do some events on track. The balance feels very good to me at least on the street. I had a little oversteer tendency before I switched the rear bar out to the GT350 one. Now it wont oversteer unless I really try. And when the back end has come out it recovers quickly.
     
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    H1shawn1

    H1shawn1 Well-Known Member

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    I do not have a PP, so non torsen. I'm a 3.55 auto GT.

    I'd be curious to feel the difference between mine and yours with the cb762 installed on mine. I'll also be watching closely your experience with the torsen upgrade, as I'm curious if I'd notice any benefit from it as well.
     
  19. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    Anyone that prioritizes cornering would benefit significantly from the torsen.
     
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