LIVERNOIS FLEX TUNE

[Machgzus]

If anyone was on the fence about running E85, it's definitely worth doing. So far I'm seeing on average 8 degrees cooler temps while cruising and the power delivery is unreal! It just pulls hard all the way to redline. The best part though is the greatly improved transmission programming, feels like a completely different car! 10 out of 10 to Livernois!

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[John S]

I thought Livernois and other tuners have dropped Flex Tunes? (Do they leave too much power on the table?) Good E-85 is plentiful in metro Detroit and an E-85 tune woke up my Mach 1, well worth it.

 

[Mikepol2]

I have a Livernois MyCalibrator with a flex tune available if anyone's looking for one.

 

[John S]

Just did more quick research and learned Ford doesn't use and actual in-line fuel sensor to detect the actual alcohol content but relies on post-combustion O2 sensor readings, which isn't as accurate for optimizing the tune. I'll stick with a dedicated 93/E85 tune and probably never switch back to 93 unless traveling beyond neighboring states.

 

[Mjc1241]

The information outlined above is accurate, although I am leery of the last sentence. Pump e85 fluctuates from 53% to 85%. If I am not mistaken, a dedicated e85 tune requires at least 70% ethanol for optimal results. Below that percentage, you are essentially playing Russian roulette on a dedicated e85 tune since the tune is relying on post combustion data, not what E content is actually being injected into the engine. I am tuned by Wengerd Performance who provided me with a flex tune. Only an inline sensor at the injectors can properly determine E content; tunes only infer that logic. Based on the variation of the E content here in Georgia, the flex tune was the best solution for me on which we both agreed. Removing the tuner name, take that info on the variations in pump e85 as you wish or already are aware of in making your decision and/or check with your tuner.

 

[NHMach1]

I ran a Livernois Flex Tune for years without issue. The station that I filled up at was always at least 73%. Having just had a custom Dyno tune by Shawn at AED he said that he only uses the Flex to change fuels. I almost always run E85 anyways so from now on I’m going to stick to dedicated E85 or if I’m on a trip and can’t find E85 use the flex to switch back to 91. I know, California, only 91! Lame!

 

[engineermike]

I thought Livernois and other tuners have dropped Flex Tunes? (Do they leave too much power on the table?) Good E-85 is plentiful in metro Detroit and an E-85 tune woke up my Mach 1, well worth it.

I think most tuners dropped it because a) they didn't have access to all parameters needed to make it work properly and b) they didn't understand how to make it work properly and/or how it's designed by Ford to work. You don't actually have to leave any power on the table in a Gen3.

In a Gen2, there was no way to modulate timing with learned ethanol, but with a Gen3 you can add borderline timing (and boost, if you want) as it learns ethanol.

 

[engineermike]

Just did more quick research and learned Ford doesn't use and actual in-line fuel sensor to detect the actual alcohol content but relies on post-combustion O2 sensor readings, which isn't as accurate for optimizing the tune...

It's as accurate as the calibration is. You can make it extremely accurate as long as you start out with near-zero fuel trims on gasoline.

 

[engineermike]

... Pump e85 fluctuates from 53% to 85%. If I am not mistaken, a dedicated e85 tune requires at least 70% ethanol for optimal results. Below that percentage, you are essentially playing Russian roulette on a dedicated e85 tune since the tune is relying on post combustion data, not what E content is actually being injected into the engine.

I've learned through research and testing that the ethanol doesn't have to be much past 50% for the benefits to really flatten out. It's definitely diminishing returns. In fact, you get most of the benefit with the first 30% you add. 50% gets you a little more, but anything past 60 generally isn't even necessary. In fact, I'm talking FI; if you're NA I don't think there this is much of any benefit at all beyond 30-40%. Greg Banish even discussed this in a YT video a couple of weeks ago.

...tunes only infer that logic.

The Ford Flex logic measures the ethanol content by driving STFT to 0 (or near it) during the learning phase, by altering stoichiometric. The stoich-to-e% curve is calibratable and, just like any measurement, is as accurate as the calibration. So basically, if the base fuel trims are near zero and the stoich-to-e% curve is accurate, then the learned ethanol % is accurate as well.

 

[engineermike]

....only uses the Flex to change fuels. ...

This is silliness.

 

[NHMach1]

I don’t know, that’s just what I was told. Not a tuner. Please tell us why Mike if you don’t mind. I know that he did drain all the E85 out of the tank and started with a fresh 91 tune to develop the Flex.

 

[NHMach1]

Well actually you did, sorry, I didn’t see the previous posts lol

 

[Pistol_91]

Fords Flex tune is good enough to warranty it..

 

[Mjc1241]

I've learned through research and testing that the ethanol doesn't have to be much past 50% for the benefits to really flatten out. It's definitely diminishing returns. In fact, you get most of the benefit with the first 30% you add. 50% gets you a little more, but anything past 60 generally isn't even necessary. In fact, I'm talking FI; if you're NA I don't think there this is much of any benefit at all beyond 30-40%. Greg Banish even discussed this in a YT video a couple of weeks ago.



The Ford Flex logic measures the ethanol content by driving STFT to 0 (or near it) during the learning phase, by altering stoichiometric. The stoich-to-e% curve is calibratable and, just like any measurement, is as accurate as the calibration. So basically, if the base fuel trims are near zero and the stoich-to-e% curve is accurate, then the learned ethanol % is accurate as well.

Thanks for the education. I was misguided in my comments and appreciate the correction.

 

[Mjc1241]

This is silliness.

@engineermike thanks again for your knowledge. Can you explain further how a flex tune works? I understand that the ramps are different on a flex tune vs a straight E85 tune, but I admittedly do not fully understand other effects of using a flex tune. I personally did not want to take the chance of using a dedicated e85 tune based on the pump variations. Was that a miscalculation on my part?
Thanks.

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