Limp Mode on the Track

[montreal ponies]

sl

You should take some of this energy and enthusiasm and start a campaign that has a chance of showing results based on reasonable agreements from both parties.

I'm all for that, do you want to be part of that campaign and be our spokesman !

Has anyone heard anything new from Mike over at FP ?

I'm pretty sure as the temp gets warmer, we'll start hearing more and more stories about base/tech owners having cooling issues.

Sponsored

 

[stanglife]

sl

I'm all for that, do you want to be part of that campaign and be our spokesman !

Has anyone heard anything new from Mike over at FP ?

I'm pretty sure as the temp gets warmer, we'll start hearing more and more stories about base/tech owners having cooling issues.

I suspect the same.

I've already sent Caballus a PM offering to help. Once we see some more data from this in the summer months, I think there will be something to go on.

 

[stanglife]

Why shouldn't ford carry 100% of the blame?

Who designed the car?
Who engineered the car?
Who built the car?
Who tested the car?
Who marketed to car to the public and the magazines?
Who released the car for sale?

I believe Ford is the answer to all the above.

I sure as hell didn't. The only thing I did was make a forced choice between 2 packages (tech or track). I made that choice based on the majority of driving I plan on doing. Hell I may never achieve limp mode. And that choice was made well before I even had a pg 25 in the owners manual to base a decision on.

As a consumer I have a right to feel disappointed the the product ford is delivering and I certainly feel some what swindled.

I'm not saying it won't be a great car to drive in the street, but at this time it won't be a good car to drive at the track.

With everything that this car has
engine (designed for racing)
magride (tuned for track)
custom build trans (geared for track)
Wheels (try finding those on a street only car)
Track use was mandated in even the base car design. Otherwise it is entirely over engineered for street only.

Then add in items that are track only like track apps and line lock, ford and even you will have a hard time convincing a group for reasonable people that ford didn't overstate this car's capabilities and deceive the people buying it.

Will a jury even car about a bunch so people arguing over a $60k car with a billion dollar company about the difference in 20 mins and 30 mins on a track? I highly doubt it, but when magazines start lapping the Gt350 against other cars I sure as hell hope they do it with non track pack cars in order to illustrate the devil in this detail.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

You didn't read anything at all that would indicate that the tech would have less cooling capacity than the track version of the car? As a car enthusiast, you didn't take any time to digest the fact that there was a track version and a tech version available?

Nevermind - good luck with your argument, I'm sure it will get you far.

 

[mattlqx]

Trust me, even if FP went out of shop for an advertising campaign, someone in FP had approval authority over the final layout.

Actually, the site is a cookie cutter template, probably provided by attendeenet.com, the third-party handling the event registration. If you click through from the main page to register, it lands there. They are but one of likely many contracted services that Ford (proper, not Ford Performance who is actually focused on the vehicles themselves) uses for events.

Oh hey look, a comment about a thing that's not on the microsite. Maybe we should just ask Christina...

/* On Certain question pages, Christina found this code spreads out the question and the answers. Adjust percentage as desired */
.clsFormfieldTd { 
  width:80%; 
}

The main page is a stock photo from Ford's Media site with some logo photoshopping on it (and some very unaligned text, shudder). https://media.ford.com/content/ford...rica/US/2014/11/17/ShelbyGT350_15_HR.jpg.html

You're just nuts if you think the site was created or approved by ANYBODY within ear shot of a Ford engineer that designed anything on the car. I 100% no-doubt guarantee you that the middle manager responsible for handling promotional events gave it the thumbs up without even a second thought as to what flipping spoiler was on it. And to be specific, this car is a base car, not a Tech car. This photo was among the very earliest promo photos released by Ford on the day of the announcement in November 2014.

I work in a company of nearly a half million people. As a former product manager, if you think marketing and PM don't consult before going to market with advertising, you're dead wrong.

You're dead wrong if you think this particular microsite is anything but an after-thought. I didn't say nobody at Ford had any interaction with it, I'm just saying the people with intimate knowledge of the cars had zero to do with the splash page for event registration.

 

[lemers]

You didn't read anything at all that would indicate that the tech would have less cooling capacity than the track version of the car? As a car enthusiast, you didn't take any time to digest the fact that there was a track version and a tech version available?

Nevermind - good luck with your argument, I'm sure it will get you far.

Huge difference in less capability and can't handle minimal times on a track.




2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

 

[1320']

but when magazines start lapping the Gt350 against other cars I sure as hell hope they do it with non track pack cars in order to illustrate the devil in this detail.

So you want them to intentionally use a car that Ford said is not equipped for track duty, in track comparison tests, so that the car can lose due to circumstances that were intentionally arrayed against it?
Would it make you happy if they took cars that are more track focused, like the Z51 C7 (and similar cars), and compared it against a Tech Pack car, just to give them an opportunity to bash Ford and avenge your frustration?
Do you understand that certain parts will be shared between multiple trims and packages due to cost saving? Having four sets of wheels (One for the GT350, Track Pack, Tech Pack and R), four sets of tires (see previous), etc etc...exclusive for each package would have driven up the cost significantly. As it is the Tech, Track and base cars share a great many common parts to save cost, only the more expensive "R" has exclusive stuff.

Ford didn't "deceive" anyone, deceive implies intentional ill will. Ford gave options and people were free to choose those options based on the majority of the type of driving they would be doing. There are more than a few brands and models of cars that cannot handle track duty in their base form, the 2014 C7 Corvette with the A8 for example. With the original "oil cooler" the Boss 302 couldn't handle 20 minute sessions on the track either, it would overheat and go into limp mode.

Auto design is all about compromise, and sometimes it means a less than perfect world as a result.

 

[krt22]

I would not call 15-20 minutes minimal. Your standard 3 group hpde typically has 20 minute sessions anyway.

 

[mattlqx]

I'm pretty sure as the temp gets warmer, we'll start hearing more and more stories about base/tech owners having cooling issues.

On track? Of course.

On the road, no. Ford has acceptance testing you know. They don't just say F-it, ship it. The car is perfectly capable of normal road operation indefinitely. You're on the throttle, loading the car a very tiny fraction of the time on the road vs. most of the time on the track. They're not even close in conditions.

 

[Caballus]

So you want them to intentionally use a car that Ford said is not equipped for track duty, in track comparison tests, so that the car can lose due to circumstances that were intentionally arrayed against it?
Would it make you happy if they took cars that are more track focused, like the Z51 C7 (and similar cars), and compared it against a Tech Pack car, just to give them an opportunity to bash Ford and avenge your frustration?
Do you understand that certain parts will be shared between multiple trims and packages due to cost saving? Having four sets of wheels (One for the GT350, Track Pack, Tech Pack and R), four sets of tires (see previous), etc etc...exclusive for each package would have driven up the cost significantly. As it is the Tech, Track and base cars share a great many common parts to save cost, only the more expensive "R" has exclusive stuff.

Ford didn't "deceive" anyone, deceive implies intentional ill will. Ford gave options and people were free to choose those options based on the majority of the type of driving they would be doing. There are more than a few brands and models of cars that cannot handle track duty in their base form, the 2014 C7 Corvette with the A8 for example. With the original "oil cooler" the Boss 302 couldn't handle 20 minute sessions on the track either, it would overheat and go into limp mode.

Auto design is all about compromise, and sometimes it means a less than perfect world as a result.

When did Ford explicitly say the car is "not equipped for track duty"? I missed that, but will freely admit that there may be something (other than a statement in an owners manual) that I missed.

 

[chrsschb]

Once again the Pro-Ford side is losing sight of the extremely simple point:

This TRACK-FOCUSED car CANNOT complete a session on the TRACK without an optional package.

It's one thing to make the TRACK car more competitive on the track, but to completely neuter it?

I don't care who you are or how much aftermarket material and forums you read, you cannot deny that Ford advertised this car as a track-bred weapon of Z51 destruction. Yeah a huge customer base will never see the track. Not the point. There simply isn't enough information available to the AVERAGE buyer that says, "hey dumbass if you EVER plan to use this car on a Track then the Track Pack is REQUIRED, NOT optional."

I'll go back to my hole.

 

[lemers]

I would not call 15-20 minutes minimal. Your standard 3 group hpde typically has 20 minute sessions anyway.

Thanks for making my point. People are hitting it at 10 mins in winter. I will be fine if the car can get the "standard 3 group hpde at the typical 20 minute sessions" without limp mode. If it can't then yes Ford missed the mark and is back peddling now.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

 

[1320']

When did Ford explicitly say the car is "not equipped for track duty"? I missed that, but will freely admit that there may be something (other than a statement in an owners manual) that I missed.

I'll concede that Ford did not, in gigantic bold letters, say that Tech Pack cars are not equipped for track duty. It's in the manual and a few other Ford documents, but it's not plastered all over the web page and dealers are not instructed to lay this out.

Perhaps Ford should have required people to sign a contract of understanding that the base/ tech cars are not equipped for track/HPDE events?

 

[lemers]

So you want them to intentionally use a car that Ford said is not equipped for track duty, in track comparison tests, so that the car can lose due to circumstances that were intentionally arrayed against it?
Would it make you happy if they took cars that are more track focused, like the Z51 C7 (and similar cars), and compared it against a Tech Pack car, just to give them an opportunity to bash Ford and avenge your frustration?
Do you understand that certain parts will be shared between multiple trims and packages due to cost saving? Having four sets of wheels (One for the GT350, Track Pack, Tech Pack and R), four sets of tires (see previous), etc etc...exclusive for each package would have driven up the cost significantly. As it is the Tech, Track and base cars share a great many common parts to save cost, only the more expensive "R" has exclusive stuff.

Ford didn't "deceive" anyone, deceive implies intentional ill will. Ford gave options and people were free to choose those options based on the majority of the type of driving they would be doing. There are more than a few brands and models of cars that cannot handle track duty in their base form, the 2014 C7 Corvette with the A8 for example. With the original "oil cooler" the Boss 302 couldn't handle 20 minute sessions on the track either, it would overheat and go into limp mode.

Auto design is all about compromise, and sometimes it means a less than perfect world as a result.

I want them to use cars that are in their competitor group. I believe most will make the typical 20 minute sessions except the GT350 tech/base.




2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

 

[gravedgr]

sl

I'm all for that, do you want to be part of that campaign and be our spokesman !

Has anyone heard anything new from Mike over at FP ?

I'm pretty sure as the temp gets warmer, we'll start hearing more and more stories about base/tech owners having cooling issues.

I think it is fine to provide feedback to Mike and team, but I would just caution everyone not to use them as recipient of your frustration. All the folks there have a tireless job supporting us and others with all our questions, and I wouldn't want to put a damper on that. They really are advocates for us, the owners/buyers.

 

[lemers]

I'll concede that Ford did not, in gigantic bold letters, say that Tech Pack cars are not equipped for track duty. It's in the manual and a few other Ford documents, but it's not plastered all over the web page and dealers are not instructed to lay this out.

Perhaps Ford should have required people to sign a contract of understanding that the base/ tech cars are not equipped for track/HPDE events?

What is it equipped for? Why sell a performance car that can't perform longer than 20 mins?

Don't say street duty, because this car to way over engineered for street only.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

Sponsored