Limp Mode on the Track

[lemers]

If I were running an auto magazine right now I would take the base or tech package GT350 out against a lot of "weekend track cars" to see where it stacks up on longevity on the track.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

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[krt22]

It doesn't really work that way. Adding 30 degrees ambient won't necessarily add 30 degrees to the cooled fluid temperatures. For one, you don't know the duty cycle of the cooler. The diff cooler for instance is electrically controlled. Was the pump running the whole time? Is it variable speed? Was coolant thermostat wide-open to cool the engine block and transfer heat from the oil? I'd be willing to bet the overall increase wouldn't be linear even if all those variables were static.

Agreed. Heat transfer is everything but a set of linear relationships.

 

[icormba]

11

It's a marketing site. The people who made it had zero interaction with the people who made the car. This is how large companies work.

This is totally true! We had some training posters made by a marketing firm many years ago. They had printed thousands of said posters sent to our sites world wide when one employee noticed one of the people pictured in the poster was using a Apple Laptop!! One of our competitors at the time! :doh: ha-ha-ha!!!

 

[krt22]

Wrong, someone at FP must had interaction with the marketing people. They didn't just come up with their marketing in a vacuum.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

Heh, I can assure you it's 100% plausible that they didn't. And even if they did, what the engineers state and what the marketing folks interpret and deliver can be two very different things. What engineers intend and what is eventually conveyed to customers doesn't always align, .

 

[lemers]

Trust me, even if FP went out of shop for an advertising campaign, someone in FP had approval authority over the final layout.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

 

[Caballus]

Heh, I can assure you it's 100% plausible that they didn't. And even if they did, what the engineers state and what the marketing folks interpret and deliver can be two very different things. What engineers intend and what is eventually conveyed to customers doesn't always align, .

If your car shows up damaged, does the customer deal with the transport company(ies) or with Ford/the dealer? The transport company is Ford's agent, not the customer's agent. Ford is responsible for the actions of their agents. Not supervising their agent is not an acceptable excuse...neither legally nor ethically. If the marketing was done by Ford's organic marketing department, the argument is even stronger. Ford is responsible for misleading the public either way--intentional or not. The customer cannot reasonably be expected to learn of limitations from pg 25 of the Owner's Manual (printed well after sales began), particularly when the marketing campaign led the customer to believe otherwise.

 

[stanglife]

Wow. I know I'll get flamed for this because people have agendas but...I haven't changed my opinion at all. While I REALLY hope there's a solution for this if it truly effects all of the Tech cars...For all of the effort and digging to assign blame to Ford on this, as if it was malicious, you can't spend half of that effort to see the more than equal amount of flags and facts that pointed to the possibility of this happening?

You latch on to the fact that there was a single tech car in a Track Tour ad but choose to completely ignore and dismiss the FACT that there was not a single Tech car run at any of last years Track Tour events. How about a little objectivity?? No one is saying that nothing should be done but the blame game and victim mentality is wearing thin. You should take some of this energy and enthusiasm and start a campaign that has a chance of showing results based on reasonable agreements from both parties. You'll get a lot further as an enthusiast looking for a solution as opposed to an Attorney wielding owner who already said they are ditching the car for an M3 next year.

 

[Car Man]

Don't confuse my skepticism with not believing there may be a real issue here. Look what happened with the paint boogers and transportation damage issues - a few reports, and then a whole bunch of photos proved these are significant issues. That got Ford's attention.

A car (or two or three cars) with an unidentified limping problem does not create a trend. You've reported a repeatable symptom that I have no doubt exists in your car, but I want to know the source of the problem. Is it the lack of coolers, a short in the wiring harness, a run of faulty sensors from a supplier, driving style or just people being pissed because their cars don't meet their expectations? Before everyone goes nuts, Ford should have an opportunity to look into the problem. :doh:

WOW. Just wow. I'm speechless.

 

[Car Man]

Wow. I know I'll get flamed for this because people have agendas but...I haven't changed my opinion at all. While I REALLY hope there's a solution for this if it truly effects all of the Tech cars...For all of the effort and digging to assign blame to Ford on this, as if it was malicious, you can't spend half of that effort to see the more than equal amount of flags and facts that pointed to the possibility of this happening?

You latch on to the fact that there was a single tech car in a Track Tour ad but choose to completely ignore and dismiss the FACT that there was not a single Tech car run at any of last years Track Tour events. How about a little objectivity?? No one is saying that nothing should be done but the blame game and victim mentality is wearing thin. You should take some of this energy and enthusiasm and start a campaign that has a chance of showing results based on reasonable agreements from both parties. You'll get a lot further as an enthusiast looking for a solution as opposed to an Attorney wielding owner who already said they are ditching the car for an M3 next year.

And you are such a homer that you are oblivious to the fact that there is a reason that Ford suddenly included the track pact on all cars. They knew it was an issue.

How about you try being objective and not some blind fanboy only trying to protect the image of a car manufacturer on a website. You should take some of your energy and invest it engaging all sides debate and not just one that fits your homer agenda.

 

[stanglife]

And you are such a homer that you are oblivious to the fact that there is a reason that Ford suddenly included the track pact on all cars. They knew it was an issue.

How about you try being objective and not some blind fanboy only trying to protect the image of a car manufacturer on a website. You should take some of your energy and invest it engaging all sides debate and not just one that fits your homer agenda.

You obviously only read what you want to read. I'm arguing both sides. You sound hurt that you missed out on the new options...What car did you buy? Yeah...

 

[Hack]

I'm arguing both sides.

Not that I've noticed.

 

[gravedgr]

It's a marketing site. The people who made it had zero interaction with the people who made the car. This is how large companies work.

I work in a company of nearly a half million people. As a former product manager, if you think marketing and PM don't consult before going to market with advertising, you're dead wrong.

 

[stanglife]

Not that I've noticed.

Certainly am. I'd love to see an option made available to add these parts onto Tech cars - why wouldn't I? Honestly, if it was available, that would open up the used market quite a bit. A tech pack car wouldn't be a show stopper for someone wanting to track it - just add the parts. I'm a big fan of OEM Ford parts when applicable. I've used as many OEM solutions as possible on my 93...working on collecting FR500 ABS parts now, but I digress.

I'm just arguing that I think the 100% one-sided blame game might not garner the type of attention that is required to come up with a reasonable fix.

 

[stanglife]

To show that I'm objective, here's a tidbit that you guys should use to politely explain your confusion:
https://media.ford.com/content/ford...s/cars/mustang/2016-gt350-350r-press-kit.html

"The original Shelby GT350 introduced in 1965 established the Mustang’s performance credentials. The all-new Shelby GT350 Mustang, featuring the most powerful naturally aspirated Ford production engine ever, is a world-class performance vehicle, designed to tackle the planet’s most challenging roads – an all-day track car that’s also street legal. "

In the same press release, there are some things that would indicate the track cooling is desirable:
"Staying cool Every aspect of Shelby GT350 is built for track capability, and the transmission is no exception. Managing temperatures and ensuring sufficient lubrication is key to real-world track durability. The GT350 Track Package and GT350R have a unique oil-to-air transmission cooler that is fed by a gerotor pump integrated into the housing of the transmission. This arrangement ensures the transmission stays cool and properly lubricated, but it also brings the added benefit of keeping transmission heat out of the coolant circuit. The result is an engine radiator dedicated to engine cooling, and a smaller, lighter design."

You're welcome.

 

[lemers]

I'm just arguing that I think the 100% one-sided blame game might not garner the type of attention that is required to come up with a reasonable fix.

Why shouldn't ford carry 100% of the blame?

Who designed the car?
Who engineered the car?
Who built the car?
Who tested the car?
Who marketed to car to the public and the magazines?
Who released the car for sale?

I believe Ford is the answer to all the above.

I sure as hell didn't. The only thing I did was make a forced choice between 2 packages (tech or track). I made that choice based on the majority of driving I plan on doing. Hell I may never achieve limp mode. And that choice was made well before I even had a pg 25 in the owners manual to base a decision on.

As a consumer I have a right to feel disappointed the the product ford is delivering and I certainly feel some what swindled.

I'm not saying it won't be a great car to drive in the street, but at this time it won't be a good car to drive at the track.

With everything that this car has
engine (designed for racing)
magride (tuned for track)
custom build trans (geared for track)
Wheels (try finding those on a street only car)
Track use was mandated in even the base car design. Otherwise it is entirely over engineered for street only.

Then add in items that are track only like track apps and line lock, ford and even you will have a hard time convincing a group for reasonable people that ford didn't overstate this car's capabilities and deceive the people buying it.

Will a jury even car about a bunch so people arguing over a $60k car with a billion dollar company about the difference in 20 mins and 30 mins on a track? I highly doubt it, but when magazines start lapping the Gt350 against other cars I sure as hell hope they do it with non track pack cars in order to illustrate the devil in this detail.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP

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