June Sales

[1mic]

And now, it's impossible to establish any trends. All we know is camaro sales are shit, but GM isn't releasing enough information to say if they are continually dropping or if they just had a bad 1-2 months at the beginning of the year. They are intentionally keeping people in the dark...so people won't freak out for the next 3 months. Withholding information is a douchbag move GM. :tsk:

A little over 25k sales on the year for the camaro however is terrible, any way you cut it. The refresh isn't going to do shit either.

The camero refresh will be worse. Lol GM design is a fucking joke.
Pontiac Aztec, 04-06 GTO, cat fish camero, add 2019 camero to that!!!!

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[Silver Bullitt]

People know that there's a Camaro. It's not an advertising problem. It's a vehicle attribute problem. The failure to recognize this is astounding. I was excited to test drive a couple and walked away stunned at several items (not in a good way). I'm not alone and I'm sure many prospective buyers have similar experiences, especially if they do any cross shopping.

This was exactly my experience. I test drove an SS 1LE. The culmination of low visibility and an ergo dynamic challenging interior just left me with a "blah" response from the experience. The dealer really wanted to move that car, but I hadn't driven a Mustang yet (Challenger wasn't even on my radar). As soon as I sat in the Mustang and fired it up, it just seemed like I was more one with the car. The more I drove it, the bigger the smile. Performance wise for street driving, the differences are negligible. It wasn't even a decision I had to make at that point. There was no question which car I would rather drive on a daily basis.

 

[Ace]

You can market it as much as you want. People arent stupid. And will buy the car that suits there needs best. If people want all out performance. Buy a Corvette! Not a pony car that wants to be a Corvette.

Lol, yeah people should just buy a car that costs $20k more...

People know that there's a Camaro. It's not an advertising problem. It's a vehicle attribute problem. The failure to recognize this is astounding. I was excited to test drive a couple and walked away stunned at several items (not in a good way). I'm not alone and I'm sure many prospective buyers have similar experiences, especially if they do any cross shopping.

I don't know what kind of Camaro you drove, but I think the NPP exhaust note, magnetic ride suspension, interior material quality (e.g. the plastic-feeling steering wheel on Mustang) and a few other things were clearly ahead of the 15GT. Ford did a great job of fixing nearly all of that with the 18 model which is why competition is important.

But I guess we will find people who will even defend the friggin mexican Pzero crap that Ford was throwing on the 15 GTs. Who cares about driving in the rain, if you can see so much out of the car

 

[millhouse]

I love this review of the camaros interior...

"There’s more natural light entering Guantanamo’s solitary cells than the Camaro’s cabin, and yet designers struggled to shield the navigation screen from glare. Their inelegant solution tilts the screen toward the floor, an awkward angle that also reflects the faux-metal bezel surrounding the shifter. The panel gaps of the instrument-cluster hood—directly in the driver’s line of sight—should make Bob Lutz weep. And when the interior-design team ran out of room up front, they simply used the real estate in the rear. The map pockets in the doors and the wireless phone-charging pad are effectively in the back seat."

 

[BmacIL]

Lol, yeah people should just buy a car that costs $20k more...


I don't know what kind of Camaro you drove, but I think the NPP exhaust note, magnetic ride suspension, interior material quality (e.g. the plastic-feeling steering wheel on Mustang) and a few other things were clearly ahead of the 15GT. Ford did a great job of fixing nearly all of that with the 18 model which is why competition is important.

But I guess we will find people who will even defend the friggin mexican Pzero crap that Ford was throwing on the 15 GTs. Who cares about driving in the rain, if you can see so much out of the car

I drove a 2SS and a 50 years SS. The first one had a much more synthetic feeling wheel than the Mustang, despite having a nice shape and size. I don't think the material quality differences is enough for people to really notice, tbh. It wasn't for me. Similar but layed out different is the biggest difference. They will notice the sight lines immediately.

And yeah, the Mustang was missing some features, but was also much cheaper. Ford doesn't get a pass for Pzeros. They're a terrible street tire. I'm not defending it. They righted many of those things, as you said, and STILL have a much more livable car. That's why the Camaro is getting crushed on sales.

 

[millhouse]

It's funny, the only people that think the interior quality of the camaro was better than the mustang was...you guessed it, camaro buyers. Every single publication put the quality at a virtual tie. The design however almost always favored the mustang.

A favorite snippet of mine...

"There’s more natural light entering Guantanamo’s solitary cells than the Camaro’s cabin, and yet designers struggled to shield the navigation screen from glare. Their inelegant solution tilts the screen toward the floor, an awkward angle that also reflects the faux-metal bezel surrounding the shifter. The panel gaps of the instrument-cluster hood—directly in the driver’s line of sight—should make Bob Lutz weep. And when the interior-design team ran out of room up front, they simply used the real estate in the rear. The map pockets in the doors and the wireless phone-charging pad are effectively in the back seat."

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-comparison-test

As for the 2018MY mustang, with just a few more tweaks to materials...this is how motortrend feels:

" Does the Mustang feel $3,375 more special than the Camaro? No. However, the Ford’s interior does look and feel about $2K nicer."

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/che...-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-comparison/

 

[activeGT]

I don't know what kind of Camaro you drove, but I think the NPP exhaust note, magnetic ride suspension, interior material quality (e.g. the plastic-feeling steering wheel on Mustang) and a few other things were clearly ahead of the 15GT. Ford did a great job of fixing nearly all of that with the 18 model which is why competition is important.

Any naysayer on the new Camaro platform never drove one. And I agree Ford upped their game so I am driving a new one for now.

 

[Blue Horse]

Who really gives a rats ass about the sales # each month,both the S550 anything Mustang and the Camaro are both BUTT UGLY,the only nice looking car is the Challenger, which is starting to gain more and more each month,pretty soon it will be on top.:clap2:

 

[TTown]

This naysayer test drove one. The visibility is garbage and alone is a deal killer. As for the interior, I think the Camaro air vents down low where it blows air up at your elbows is a design disaster. What on earth.... I want the air vents up in the dash like virtually every other vehicle on the planet so when its boiling hot out the air can be directed right at my face. The screen (angled down to avoid glare or some such) looks like an afterthought - like it was velcro attached to the face of the dash. GM needs to start over.

 

[MyFirst5.0]

This naysayer test drove one. The visibility is garbage and alone is a deal killer. As for the interior, I think the Camaro air vents down low where it blows air up at your elbows is a design disaster. What on earth.... I want the air vents up in the dash like virtually every other vehicle on the planet so when its boiling hot out the air can be directed right at my face. The screen (angled down to avoid glare or some such) looks like an afterthought - like it was velcro attached to the face of the dash. GM needs to start over.

yup..before i bought my 16gt i drove that camaro. it was faster no doubt, thats where it ended. the exterior/interior is an absolute joke. im surprised anyone buys them..oh wait..they don't :lol:

 

[Ace]

I drove a 2SS and a 50 years SS. The first one had a much more synthetic feeling wheel than the Mustang, despite having a nice shape and size. I don't think the material quality differences is enough for people to really notice, tbh. It wasn't for me. Similar but layed out different is the biggest difference. They will notice the sight lines immediately.

And yeah, the Mustang was missing some features, but was also much cheaper. Ford doesn't get a pass for Pzeros. They're a terrible street tire. I'm not defending it. They righted many of those things, as you said, and STILL have a much more livable car. That's why the Camaro is getting crushed on sales.

I always felt the 15 steering wheels felt kind of sticky and like plastic. Camaros feels much more like the S-Line wheel in the TT I had. That's why I and lot of other people here in germany got their Mustang wheel completely redone with nice leather.

There were also some problems with the seats in most Mustangs I know with being wavy and cracked after only a few thousand miles. That's why I always got the impression that the Mustang feels bit cheaper than the Chevy, whose leather just feels softer and nicer. But that is of course always a matter of opinion and hard to measure.



I totally am with you that Chevy is losing their selling point. 18 GT totally stepped up. Increased power, more low-end torque, 10AT from the ZL1, magnetic ride, more leather in the interior (incl. new steering wheel, it feels really nice now), Michelin tires, etc. So the 18 GT has still the practical value but can offer a performance closer or on par with the SS.

That's why I am totally disappointed with the 19 SS. They just made the exterior looking...ehm... "different" but they don't offer much more value than a pre-refresh model. I doubt many people will buy a new car for 8AT to 10AT upgrade or that camera-rear mirror.

The mirror is a great example how Chevys marketing fails: It sounds like a feature to give the car more visibility, but why not actually present it in a video to sell it as "You now get a great view out of the rear" :headbonk:

 

[thehunterooo]

The 15-17 junk cars still outsold the 6th gen Camaro yikes. The 2015-2016 sales were insane.

 

[Ace]

Nobody said they were junk cars. I had a great time with my 15 GT and in other conditions I would still have mine
If I had the money I would get a Ecoboost als a daily driver besides my Camaro for weekends right now :cheers:
Interestingly these are the retail sales in 2018

Kudos to Challenger, growing in retail sales and ATP's. Mustang leading the pack in retail volume but at a lower average price point. Camaro's not all doom and gloom.

Retail ATP's 2018 (JDPin)
Camaro: $40,814
Challenger: $38,241
Mustang: $34,798

Retail Sales 2018
Mustang: 29,548
Challenger: 25,783
Camaro: 24,809

Funny all three are generating about the same retail revenue YTD but achieving it differently. Despite the comments about "expensive muscle cars" they are on track to produce $2B in revenue for each respective automaker this year. How much profit they yield is anybody's guess.

Happy 4th everyone

Also found the retail sales for 2017:

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498 (-$4,016)
Mustang: $33,792 (-$5,722)

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581 (-4,641)
Challenger: 45,821 (-19,401)

Total Sales 2017
Mustang 81,866
Camaro 67,940 (-13,926)
Challenger 64,537 (-17,329)

Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2017
Camaro 4%
Mustang 26% (+22%)
Challenger 29% (+25%)

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Any naysayer on the new Camaro platform never drove one. And I agree Ford upped their game so I am driving a new one for now.

As a ex Camaro owner. I beg to differ. A Photo of the 11 SS I owned. The sixth gen which I also drove just had even worse visibility issues than this. But I did like the interior slightly better for the sixth gen Camaro. Than the Tonka toy interior that was in the 5th gen. I’ll never own another Camaro til this basic design is dead and gone. And replaced with something you can actually see out of.

 

[thehunterooo]

MEDISIN is back finally to give life to Camaro6! Hope is not lost!
#neverfleetsales #higherprofits

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