How Much Boost?

[STREETMASTERS]

Hey everyone, new to the EcoB world. Looking to pick up one of these very soon to hold me over until the RS is released. Wanted to start playing with the motor a little. Who knows, might end up enjoying 2 wheels and sliding....

Just curious, is anyone running a boost controller? If so, How much boost are you running?

Has anyone over boosted? Wastegate holding? Boost creep?

Post up your numbers!

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[SloS14]

I'm pretty sure if you put a BC on this car the ECU would get pissed off quick. It's 2015, boost is ECU controlled.

 

[dragonacc]

Not to be a jerk, but did you read any of the tune posts or any posts before asking your question?

No need for a boost controller. The ECU controls the wastegate and all you need is a tune. The ECU also isn't set at a specific boost level with the default tune or with the Cobb OTS maps.

 

[David@FFtec]

We've tested the stock boost solenoid up to 39psi so far. Still works.
Cobb gives you excellent control of the stock boost solenoid.

 

[STREETMASTERS]

Not to be a jerk, but did you read any of the tune posts or any posts before asking your question?

No need for a boost controller. The ECU controls the wastegate and all you need is a tune. The ECU also isn't set at a specific boost level with the default tune or with the Cobb OTS maps.

Haha no worries, I would get flamed hard on other forums for not researching. I was looking in the wrong place for answers - reading up on the tune sections now. I was curious how much boost people were running with the stock internals. Seeing now there is much to learn with these engines, lots of opportunity for some serious upgrades.
Oh and I saw this online doing some searching which is why I asked about boost controller: http://www.shopmrt.com/2015-EcoBoost-Mustang-Boost-Max-p/73p005.htm


39psi on stock solenoid, not bad! Damn serious - appreciate the input. Any guesstimate on how much boost this engine can handle?

Very curious what others were running for boost. I saw some posts about people pushing 26-27psi; guessing stock internals. Anyone pushing 30psi stock internals?

 

[dragonacc]

Haha no worries, I would get flamed hard on other forums for not researching. I was looking in the wrong place for answers - reading up on the tune sections now. I was curious how much boost people were running with the stock internals. Seeing now there is much to learn with these engines, lots of opportunity for some serious upgrades.
Oh and I saw this online doing some searching which is why I asked about boost controller: http://www.shopmrt.com/2015-EcoBoost-Mustang-Boost-Max-p/73p005.htm


39psi?! Damn serious - appreciate the input.

Very curious what others were running for boost. I saw some posts about people pushing 26-27psi; guessing stock internals. Anyone pushing 30psi stock internals?

So not all tunes or tuning devices are the same, but... On the Cobb OTS maps the ECU is attempting to hit a certain load target. The ECU will vary the boost level in order to achieve the commanded load target. The Cobb OTS stage 1 map will on average hit 22-23 psi, but can go higher as a couple others have noted.

My car with the OTS map maxes out at 22.5, but the actual power level is likely very similar to others running the same map even if the boost level is different.

I should have my updated map from FFTEC real soon and I'll see if the boost level is any higher on that tune.

 

[STREETMASTERS]

I'm going to get a pro tune using the AP. I never liked the results of the ots tunes for subarus But they seem to be OK for now.
keep us posted on your the results from FFTEC !

 

[dragonacc]

I'm going to get a pro tune using the AP. I never liked the results of the ots tunes for subarus But they seem to be OK for now.
keep us posted on your the results from FFTEC !

No problem. I have the updated map in hand. I'll do some testing this weekend.

 

[EngieKev]

Peak boost is all relative, what matters is airflow. Boost to achieve a given airflow will vary with temperature, density, humidity, etc.

This is why all OEMs tune to a normalized load instead of an absolute value of boost.

So when you see the boost "only" go to 15psi on a cold day, remember that and don't blame the OEM for "holding back".

Also, regarding the 39psi limit of the solenoid. How is this relevant? Yes the solenoid will operate up to that limit physically, but what matters more is the efficiency of the turbo. There is no point in operating at 30+PSI on a very small compressor, you will just be generating excess heat.

 

[STREETMASTERS]

Coming from the subaru world and being old school, we used a manual or electronic boost controller. Didn't realize the solenoid could adjust that high. Not sure how good the waste gates are in these turbos but they probably start to see some creep after a certain psi. Again I have to read up on here the forum (already read a bunch last night ) still a ways to go with these motors and how much beating they can take.
I'm old school- 4G63 mitsubishi 90s old school lol... used to slap a dp back and a manual BC turn up to 25psi no tune...they certainly took a beating.

 

[dragonacc]

Coming from the subaru world and being old school, we used a manual or electronic boost controller. Didn't realize the solenoid could adjust that high. Not sure how good the waste gates are in these turbos but they probably start to see some creep after a certain psi. Again I have to read up on here the forum (already read a bunch last night ) still a ways to go with these motors and how much beating they can take.
I'm old school- 4G63 mitsubishi 90s old school lol... used to slap a dp back and a manual BC turn up to 25psi no tune...they certainly took a beating.

They took a beating until the crank walked off. ;)

 

[David@FFtec]

Also, regarding the 39psi limit of the solenoid. How is this relevant? Yes the solenoid will operate up to that limit physically, but what matters more is the efficiency of the turbo. There is no point in operating at 30+PSI on a very small compressor, you will just be generating excess heat.

It was just for the sake of testing. We're seeing diminishing returns on the stock turbo at 23-25psi- there's a little more power in it but it's not worth it. OTOH it's nice to know that the stock boost solenoid can be used with large turbos and high boost.

 

[arghx7]

On the older Mitsubishi boost control systems, going back to the DSMs and 3000GT/Stealth, the stock ECU had a target load based boost control system. The load target was basically a ratio of volume airflow to engine speed, as those engines used a volume airflow sensor (Karmann vortext type).

In the old days nobody knew how those things worked, the ECU wasn't reverse engineered, and the ECU wasn't all that smart in terms of throwing codes. So you could just bypass the stock solenoid and run a manual valve or an aftermarket external electronic system. That's what OP is referring to.

On modern Ford controls, the engine control system is based on engine torque models and airflow models in the ECU. When you put the accelerator pedal down, you are requesting a specific torque based on lookup tables in the ECU. The ECU figures out what airflow, cam phasing, fueling, and spark would be required to achieve that torque.

Then it coordinates the actuators:

• Throttle valve opening to achieve air mass flow into the manifold and de-throttle for better efficiency

• Wastegate solenoid to control wastegate valve and achieve air mass flow coming from the turbo

• Cam phasing to change residual gas in the combustion chamber, and to change trapped mass/effective compression ratio

• Spark timing based on a calculated fuel quality and dwell based on the characteristics of the coil

• Air-fuel ratio based on emissions, effect on torque output, and exhaust temperature limits

All of those various systems are controlled in the stock software and tune. On the basic OTS aftermarket tunes much of them are preserved. As you get more modified, a lot of that stuff gets bypassed (simplified boost control code) as it's too complicated to make it all still work as it did from the factory.

The Ford Racing tunes (currently available on the Focus ST but not on the Mustang yet) keep the complexity in the ECU and have a warranty, but are more conservative and tend to make lower numbers.

 

[Juben]

Coming from the subaru world and being old school, we used a manual or electronic boost controller. Didn't realize the solenoid could adjust that high. Not sure how good the waste gates are in these turbos but they probably start to see some creep after a certain psi. Again I have to read up on here the forum (already read a bunch last night ) still a ways to go with these motors and how much beating they can take.
I'm old school- 4G63 mitsubishi 90s old school lol... used to slap a dp back and a manual BC turn up to 25psi no tune...they certainly took a beating.

You said, 4G63. Now you're tugging at my heartstrings, lol. I started out with DSMs many moons ago.

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