GT500 vs ZLE

[Droopy1592]

It's difficult to do proper, scientific tests with proper, scientific test methods and procedures without a budget. But not running all these cars on new tires, let alone, bringing a GT500 with 'well cooked tires' destroys the credibility of Throttle House and is as useless as running one car in the cold morning and another during the heat of the day that can easily be seconds slower; let alone some magazines who use multiple drivers on multiple days

-GT500 arrived with "Well-cooked Tires"
-GT500 CFTP does not have front splitter wickers installed
-GT500 CFTP does not have wing set to max downforce.

lol yes. Thanks for keeping us on track.

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[Checkmate]

Magazines and journalists often request cars and then secretly take them to the track to conduct head to head tests without disclosing it. It's possible the GT500 CFTP went from one event or publication, who ruined the tires, directly to Throttle House without notice that the car is going to the track (possibly requested to use it for a photo/street drive review).

It's irresponsible or lazy to conduct track tests in cars that do not have new tires and I hope people as a whole start to realize this and demand magazine publications and youtube bloggers and channels to be held to a higher standard.

Jason Camissa has a great relationship with Ford and is always upfront about the intended usage. His last use of a similar car was well documented in the Carmudgeon episode.

PSC2’s were assessed by Throttle House, Pobst and Camissa in the morning of the test to ensure it was good to track.

All that being said, how great are these cars?

 

[gmd2003]

It's difficult to do proper, scientific tests with proper, scientific test methods and procedures without a budget. But not running all these cars on new tires, let alone, bringing a GT500 with 'well cooked tires' destroys the credibility of Throttle House and is as useless as running one car in the cold morning and another during the heat of the day that can easily be seconds slower; let alone some magazines who use multiple drivers on multiple days

-GT500 arrived with "Well-cooked Tires"
-GT500 CFTP does not have front splitter wickers installed
-GT500 CFTP does not have wing set to max downforce.

BJ , how much difference lap time wise does the front aero and wing position make in your experience on the 500 in this test ?

 

[millhouse]

This was a car provided BY Ford.

The ZL1 1LE was provided by a viewer and was on the basic ‘Street’ alignment. GM didn’t get a chance to tinker with the car and dial it for more negative camber.

The GT500 was dialed in by Ford to the ‘Track’ alignment so no excuses there.

This was verified by Throttle House separately.

The ISSIMI video where that GT500 did well had the same exact Aero setup and there were no complaints. It did well against the GT3 RS for the one lap and then lap times kept going up after which isn’t promising. This is after all a very heavy sports car.

Again, show the proof. If you can't show proof of these alignments, you are spreading lies.

Where did anyone show or say anything about a street or track alignment for other vehicles?

We already know Ford delivered the car with bald tires, the rear wing in the lowest (least downforce) position and without wicker splitters.

Here is an image showing the ZLE running around with MORE negative camber. It's visibly obvious. If the GT500 had a track alignment...and the ZLE street, this wouldn't be possible.

 

[millhouse]

Jason Camissa has a great relationship with Ford and is always upfront about the intended usage. His last use of a similar car was well documented in the Carmudgeon episode.

PSC2’s were assessed by Throttle House, Pobst and Camissa in the morning of the test to ensure it was good to track.

All that being said, how great are these cars?

They only assessed it "safe" to run on the track. You can run sport cup 2's damn near to the chords are showing. That doesn't mean they will perform. We already know they were shit when they got them.

 

[Droopy1592]

This was a car provided BY Ford.

The ZL1 1LE was provided by a viewer and was on the basic ‘Street’ alignment. GM didn’t get a chance to tinker with the car and dial it for more negative camber.

The GT500 was dialed in by Ford to the ‘Track’ alignment so no excuses there.

This was verified by Throttle House separately.

The ISSIMI video where that GT500 did well had the same exact Aero setup and there were no complaints. It did well against the GT3 RS for the one lap and then lap times kept going up after which isn’t promising. This is after all a very heavy sports car.

sources? Sounds like you’re making it up. I subscribe and didn’t see anything of the sort. Also, looks like the Chevy is running the more aggressive alignment just looking at the video.

 

[Checkmate]

Again, show the proof. If you can't show proof of these alignments, you are spreading lies.

Where did anyone show or say anything about a street or track alignment for other vehicles?

We already know Ford delivered the car with bald tires, the rear wing in the lowest (least downforce) position and without wicker splitters.

Here is an image showing the ZLE running around with MORE negative camber. It's visibly obvious. If the GT500 had a track alignment...and the ZLE street, this wouldn't be possible.

Proof? Here's my proof from Throttle House.

 

[millhouse]

Proof? Here's my proof from Throttle House.

Then please explain why all of the video shows the ZLE with more negative camber.

 

[millhouse]

sources? Sounds like you’re making it up. I subscribe and didn’t see anything of the sort. Also, looks like the Chevy is running the more aggressive alignment just looking at the video.

Exactly.

We know the mustang wasn't completely setup for the track due the absence of wicker splitters and a low wing height.

Unless they had devices to measure the negative camber, they have no idea what these cars were setup to.

 

[Checkmate]

Then please explain why all of the video shows the ZLE with more negative camber.

You are basing it on one picture at a weird angle? Randy Pobst and Jason Camissa don't screw around. They are both huge fans of the GT500. Just read the Motortrend story that Randy wrote up if you need proof. The customer provided ZL1 1LE was only on 'Street' alignment. This was verified by all at hand.

It's one thing if was just a bunch of yahoo Youtubers but in this case, the 2 people (Randy and Jason) who are revered in the business (also by manufacturers) were on hand to make sure everything was fair and balanced as best as possible.

All this debate aside, let's get past this one because we all have the ability to have either one of these amazing cars.

 

[millhouse]

You are basing it on one picture at a weird angle? Randy Pobst and Jason Camissa don't screw around. They are both huge fans of the GT500. Just read the Motortrend story that Randy wrote up if you need proof. The customer provided ZL1 1LE was only on 'Street' alignment. This was verified by all at hand.

It's one thing if was just a bunch of yahoo Youtubers but in this case, the 2 people (Randy and Jason) who are revered in the business (also by manufacturers) were on hand to make sure everything was fair and balanced as best as possible.

All this debate aside, let's get past this one because we all have the ability to have either one of these amazing cars.

Look at the picture....it's dead nuts straight on.

Notice they also ran the car with the wing at the lowest setting...and the car was delivered without wicker splitters.

You say they claim the car was in track alignment....but all the evidence suggests otherwise.

The thing is, they don't adjust the suspension on these cars....so they wouldn't have any equipment to measure the alignment specs. They are likely making assumptions...assuming Ford would deliver these cars with a track alignment.

Again, look at the picture and videos and it's obvious the ZLE is running around with more negative camber.

 

[Jarstang]

Thread cleaned up and the garbage removed. Thanks for keeping this on-topic.

 

[Minn19]

Look at the picture....it's dead nuts straight on.

Notice they also ran the car with the wing at the lowest setting...and the car was delivered without wicker splitters.

You say they claim the car was in track alignment....but all the evidence suggests otherwise.

The thing is, they don't adjust the suspension on these cars....so they wouldn't have any equipment to measure the alignment specs. They are likely making assumptions...assuming Ford would deliver these cars with a track alignment.

Again, look at the picture and videos and it's obvious the ZLE is running around with more negative camber.

ZLEs come from the factory with negative camber IIRC. I should look at mine tonight and see what it looks like, but it is on smaller tires up front for my winter set.

Again, Ford sent them the car this way, I'm sure they are not going to go buy a set of splitter wickers and add them.

Aside from that, I'm unsure if they would of helped or hurt the GT500s time. It probably helped on the long straight to not have them and I'm unsure if Thunder Hills corners are fast enough for the aero of either car to make a difference in the corners speed wise (maybe a couple).

They are making assumptions based on what they are told was done to the cars. Could each party being lying to them, sure, but that isn't necessarily their fault.

 

[Droopy1592]

Thread cleaned up and the garbage removed. Thanks for keeping this on-topic.

Thanks

 

[millhouse]

ZLEs come from the factory with negative camber IIRC. I should look at mine tonight and see what it looks like, but it is on smaller tires up front for my winter set.

Again, Ford sent them the car this way, I'm sure they are not going to go buy a set of splitter wickers and add them.

Aside from that, I'm unsure if they would of helped or hurt the GT500s time. It probably helped on the long straight to not have them and I'm unsure if Thunder Hills corners are fast enough for the aero of either car to make a difference in the corners speed wise (maybe a couple).

They are making assumptions based on what they are told was done to the cars. Could each party being lying to them, sure, but that isn't necessarily their fault.

All cars come from the factory with negative camber....including the GT500. The picture makes it obvious that the ZLE had more....which throws the "GT500 had a track alignment and the ZLE didn't" theory out the window.

Ford did send the cars that way....as it's likely all they had at the time. We know the wing was in the incorrect position for track use. We also know Ford sent the vehicle with spent tires. In all reality, no one knows what the hell either car had for camber settings...they seem to all be going off of assumptions.

As for negative camber helping or not, we all know how much of a difference it made on the C8 corvette.

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