GM is pulling back on EVs

[K4fxd]

Making argument that catalytic converters would happen without regulations

People want clean air so yes some manufacturer would have added them then advertised about how much cleaner their cars are. The public would buy those cars and eventually all would have Cats.

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[kz]

People want clean air so yes some manufacturer would have added them then advertised about how much cleaner their cars are. The public would buy those cars and eventually all would have Cats.

Does that apply to diesels too which are just about the worst emission wise ?

(rhetorical question of course, all these arguments make zero sense in the world of everyone trying to remove emission control devices on them - and I hope impact of diesel emission on air quality isn't something anyone here wants to debate).

 

[K4fxd]

The problem with diesels is technology has not been developed to make them as clean as the mandates. This causes the engines to perform badly. This causes people to remove the emission control devices. Thus defeating the goal of cleaner air.

If the mandates were removed or reduced to match what is possible, and retain performance and drivability, most would not remove the devices.

My Son is an engineer at Cummins who designs engines. So I know what I talk about.

 

[kz]

The problem with diesels is technology has not been developed to make them as clean as the mandates. This causes the engines to perform badly. This causes people to remove the emission control devices. Thus defeating the goal of cleaner air.

If the mandates were removed or reduced to match what is possible, and retain performance and drivability, most would not remove the devices.

My Son is an engineer at Cummins who designs engines. So I know what I talk about.

Sort of chicken and egg - I am certain your son knows more about diesels (I'm engine designer, just not piston ones) but to me it seems they're fine and it's the case of more power / more torque / don't want to use DEF / no one will take my freedom away to pollute shit out of everything.

Similar situations to here where everyone wants more power but most drive their cars to get groceries or do mythical "spirited" driving. With a diesel truck at least it makes some sense if you tow (not that it justifies it).

 

[sk47]

Sort of chicken and egg - I am certain your son knows more about diesels (I'm engine designer, just not piston ones) but to me it seems they're fine and it's the case of more power / more torque / don't want to use DEF / no one will take my freedom away to pollute shit out of everything.

Similar situations to here where everyone wants more power but most drive their cars to get groceries or do mythical "spirited" driving. With a diesel truck at least it makes some sense if you tow (not that it justifies it).

Does that apply to diesels too which are just about the worst emission wise ?

(rhetorical question of course, all these arguments make zero sense in the world of everyone trying to remove emission control devices on them - and I hope impact of diesel emission on air quality isn't something anyone here wants to debate).

Hello; At some point this thread needs to have some conversations about what the world would be like without diesel equipment. One hint is you likely will get very hungry.

But on the topic of diesel and pollution. Some points can be made. One is there has been improvement in terms of exhaust emissions. There is ultra low sulphur fuel around and has been for a while.
My knowledge is a bit dated and i cannot swear to this, but best as i can recall diesel is a different sort of exhaust emissions than gasoline. I seem to recall that the particulate emissions (soot) are higher and visible, but the chemical makeup is different. Not clear that diesel is the worst pollution wise.

One thing being that diesel has more complete combustion or if that is not the best term yields more energy per gallon than gasoline. Before the advent of direct injection gasoline on engines diesel was somewhere near 20% more efficient. A big reason why big trucks, farm equipment, construction equipment, trains, ships and such use the stuff.

I get the dislike of folks removing emission equipment from cars or trucks. I do not like it as well. I especially dislike the fad of "blowing coal". My guess is overall not that many actually do that sort of thing. Big over the road trucks, farmers, construction, railroads likely run the engines with the emissions equipment in place.

 

[AZlb5.0]

The most recent photo I can find of beach erosion.

 

[kz]

I get the dislike of folks removing emission equipment from cars or trucks. I do not like it as well. I especially dislike the fad of "blowing coal". My guess is overall not that many actually do that sort of thing. Big over the road trucks, farmers, construction, railroads likely run the engines with the emissions equipment in place.

As always you missed the point. Nowhere was I advocating getting rid of diesels - in fact I traveled around Germany few years back in Gold TDI and it was surprisingly fun on highways - the point we were discussing was emissions control without regulations - which kind of in a way is what this entire thread is about - if anyone thinks companies would ever put emissions equipment on the cars without being forced to (VW emissions diesel scandal is a nicely fitting example - that TDi I drove probably was one of those), you had to be really missing fundamentals of how capitalistic society operates and what is the only thing that matters to corporations...

And don't think anyone could make a business case to start making cars with emissions equipment purely on the fact that some people will buy them because it's good for environment (it's also not a reason people buy hybrids or EVs - also very fitting in this thread).

 

[sk47]

Hello; At some point this thread needs to have some conversations about what the world would be like without diesel equipment. One hint is you likely will get very hungry.

But on the topic of diesel and pollution. Some points can be made. One is there has been improvement in terms of exhaust emissions. There is ultra low sulphur fuel around and has been for a while.
My knowledge is a bit dated and i cannot swear to this, but best as i can recall diesel is a different sort of exhaust emissions than gasoline. I seem to recall that the particulate emissions (soot) are higher and visible, but the chemical makeup is different. Not clear that diesel is the worst pollution wise.

One thing being that diesel has more complete combustion or if that is not the best term yields more energy per gallon than gasoline. Before the advent of direct injection gasoline on engines diesel was somewhere near 20% more efficient. A big reason why big trucks, farm equipment, construction equipment, trains, ships and such use the stuff.

I get the dislike of folks removing emission equipment from cars or trucks. I do not like it as well. I especially dislike the fad of "blowing coal". My guess is overall not that many actually do that sort of thing. Big over the road trucks, farmers, construction, railroads likely run the engines with the emissions equipment in place.

Hello; found my own answer. Diesel emits much less Co2 than gasoline engines.

 

[K4fxd]

I am certain your son knows more about diesels

They are having major drivability problems with the current and upcoming emission regs.

Caterpillar gave up and quit making on road engines in 2010. They could not make a compliant engine that ran good enough for highway applications.

 

[AZlb5.0]

They are having major drivability problems with the current and upcoming emission regs.

Caterpillar gave up and quit making on road engines in 2010. They could not make a compliant engine that ran good enough for highway applications.

Soon enough they will tighten it so much so that they won’t be able to make farming engines either.

 

[kz]

Soon enough they will tighten it so much so that they won’t be able to make farming engines either.

Time to switch to EVs then. LOL.

 

[K4fxd]

Time to switch to EVs then.

I'll bet a BEV tractor wouldn't be able to plow 10 acres on a charge.

 

[sk47]

I'll bet a BEV tractor wouldn't be able to plow 10 acres on a charge.

Hello; Yes there will be lots of hungry people around, at least for a while. BEV farm equipment.

 

[K4fxd]

The champions will say to just buy several tractors. Like the extra battery packs I have for my power tools.

 

[sk47]

Hello; Had an interesting conversation while waiting at a local business. A man had the wires of his new pickup chewed by rodents. Apparently while he was away on a trip. A Toyota I believe but that is not the point of the tale.
We figure it is because of the wiring insulation was made from a plastic substitute made from some sort of plant material. Not a new problem but one i would have thought was solved.

Anyway came to mind how going green can have very unexpected consequences.

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