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GM is pulling back on EVs

K4fxd

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Heck it might not even plow 5 acres. It takes a lot of power to pull a 3 row plow.
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sk47

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The champions will say to just buy several tractors. Like the extra battery packs I have for my power tools.
Hello; I guess that might work. Guess the batteries would be huge and very expensive. Likely need to have an extra truck to ferry the charged batteries back an forth and also have an extra BEV truck or few since there are not replaceable battery packs for a BEV pickup yet.

Sometimes the harvesters have to run nonstop for days when a crop is ready.
 

Gregs24

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As always you missed the point. Nowhere was I advocating getting rid of diesels - in fact I traveled around Germany few years back in Gold TDI and it was surprisingly fun on highways - the point we were discussing was emissions control without regulations - which kind of in a way is what this entire thread is about - if anyone thinks companies would ever put emissions equipment on the cars without being forced to (VW emissions diesel scandal is a nicely fitting example - that TDi I drove probably was one of those), you had to be really missing fundamentals of how capitalistic society operates and what is the only thing that matters to corporations...

And don't think anyone could make a business case to start making cars with emissions equipment purely on the fact that some people will buy them because it's good for environment (it's also not a reason people buy hybrids or EVs - also very fitting in this thread).
Surely the only observation to make is that IF emissions control systems would ever be fitted without regulations they would have been! They weren't. For over 100 years cars had no emissions controls and pushed fuel into the engines very rich. That carried on until regulations forced a change.

I'm not sure which of the morons you are 'discussing' this with but if they can't get that they are either stupid or trolling
 

Gregs24

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Time to switch to EVs then. LOL.
Diesel in plant and farm machinery will be replaced by hydrogen ICE. This has been mentioned on this thread over and over again, and I have even posted a link to firms such as JCB which have working systems and equipment using hydrogen. Some on here choose not to listen or even acknowledge this which is a little bit sad.

Some smaller farm equipment is already electric - but I am sure you know this.

This thread isn't a discussion - it is a few idiots who refuse to change or even accept that others choose to change just so that they can hang on to their 'freedoms' at the expense of others. They will never be persuaded or even accept when they are proven wrong but they will be ignored and the world will move on without them.
 

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key01

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Yes, the antagonists are in full force in this thread, and have been since electricity began to compete with oil and coal a 125 years ago. The thread lives only because of their continued bitching about the changes happening all around them that threaten the status quo.
 

K4fxd

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The thread lives only because of their continued bitching about the changes happening all around them that threaten the status quo.
There are realists and dreamers. The dreamers in this thread think they can wish something and it will magically appear. The realists say slow down and let the technology and infrastructure catch up.

The propaganda from Cummins is all nice and fuzzy.
 

kz

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On that topic, company I work for is working on hydrogen powered engine and it's not the piston one (like MTU's - who I am very familiar with).
 

kz

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There are realists and dreamers. The dreamers in this thread think they can wish something and it will magically appear. The realists say slow down and let the technology and infrastructure catch up.

The propaganda from Cummins is all nice and fuzzy.
What you are missing (or choose to) is that progress needs to be forced - because corporations only care about their financial metrics and absolutely nothing else and will always choose what is cheaper (lack of development is much much cheaper). This pretty much sums up this thread again.

Maybe in the past development happened for other reasons, but these days it has to be forced.
 

sk47

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There are realists and dreamers. The dreamers in this thread think they can wish something and it will magically appear. The realists say slow down and let the technology and infrastructure catch up.

The propaganda from Cummins is all nice and fuzzy.
Hello; Yes , someone let me know when farmers can go buy heavy duty hydrogen powered equipment.
Also of concern is the heavy debt load many farmers have on equipment currently in use. Tends to be an ongoing debt load. In a sane approach the existing equipment ought to be used until worn out. I guess perhaps the dreamers expect farmers to run out and add even more debt by buying new BEV or Hydrogen equipment. Maybe even abandon fossil fuel equipment which is still good and move earliest to BEV and/or H equipment.
Since neither BEV nor H equipment is available those needing replacement equipment in the coming years will have to buy gasoline or diesel stuff. Some likely needing to buy close to 2030 or the 2035 mandate deadlines.
I wonder what it to be done with a diesel tractor or combine purchased in say 2034. Equipment with perhaps ten to fifteen more years of useful working life left in it?

A thing so far ignored is the cost to the environment for the manufacture of new equipment. Example, I drive a 2001 car and a 2004 pickup. I keep both in good running order. I could go out tomorrow and buy BEV replacements. Leaving aside the very high purchase price and severe limitations of BEV's, what about the environmental cost of new manufacture? New BEV's have metals, plastics, fabrics, wiring, glass which must be made from raw materials, Say 3000 pounds for a small car like mine and 4500 to 5000 pounds for a pickup. ( the BEV's will weight much more) All that new metal, glass and other stuff must be turned into new bits and pieces from raw stock. Some will use lots of energy while being made such as glass and metal. All will have to be transported several times before a new replacement BEV car & truck gets to me.
My take is by keeping my car running for 22 years and my truck running for 19 years I have avoided a need for smelting metal, melting new glass and using all the energy needed to make new vehicles. At least for nearly two decades.

So, by keeping my car and truck in use for a long time the extra pollution/emissions inherent in making new vehicles is avoided. Not perfect examples as i get few people keep vehicles for so long. But some farmers stretch out the life of equipment.

A logical way to replace old vehicles & equipment would be to allow it to happen more traditionally. When a new car, truck or tractor is needed, then let folks get something new. Now my point of view is that new stuff ought to be better than the old stuff being replaced and this is where i part ways with the coming mandates as i understand them.

To the point. The dreamers seem to envision a general and massive toss out of existing energy infrastructure and replacing it with all new and shinny "green" infrastructure. My take is there is a lot of existing atmospheric carbon from the making of that old infrastructure. Carbon that will only be added to by the making of new replacements on an artificial timeline.
 

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sk47

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What you are missing (or choose to) is that progress needs to be forced - because corporations only care about their financial metrics and absolutely nothing else and will always choose what is cheaper (lack of development is much much cheaper). This pretty much sums up this thread again.

Maybe in the past development happened for other reasons, but these days it has to be forced.
Hello; Yes I and others understand the "FORCE" mindset. We had good examples of it during the Covid debacles. Lockdowns, mandated vaccine shots that do not work very well, if at all. ( Thinking of the dead folks who had all the shots and still died with/from covid), mask mandates, Covid vaccine identity cards we had to carry. Lost jobs because someone did not want to have a new and experimental vaccine injected into their body.
One point being those in charge and their eager minions such as some state governors carried the force too far. Another point being those in charge got so many things wrong then refused to acknowledge they got it wrong, all the while claiming they were following the science. In reality they were doubling down on the tenants of the established agendas.

An interesting item in this BEV/green discussion on this particular Mustang website being that many of the pro force/mandate voices from the covid discussions are now also the pro mandate/force voices in this BEV/green back and forth. Those same voices have yet to own up to backing the wrong horses during the covid back and forth or maybe i missed them owning up. They are being just as adamant that they are correct now about BEV's and Green energy as they were about Covid. Go figure.
 

sk47

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Apparently accepting that no government has ever had the greater good of humanity in mind is hard for some to accept. Power and abuse only begets more power and abuse.
Hello; Yes. your example is more stark than mine but i get it. These champions of the green/BEV agendas started out trying to coax others into buying into the agendas with rhetoric for a while. Now they openly tout the use of mandates and force, even before the have the absolute power in hand.
That show of intent may be to the greater benefit of having these conversations. They try to belittle any who point out flaws in the plans and call us names. Some try to minimize the importance of the freedoms we try to hold onto. They will not like your example and had they the power would silence your voice soonest.
 

sk47

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sk47

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- because corporations only care about their financial metrics and absolutely nothing else and will always choose what is cheaper (lack of development is much much cheaper). This pretty much sums up this thread again.
Hello; I take some exception to this idea. Corporations make what sells. If enough people want a product to create a viable market some outfit will cater to them. Likely lots of examples. Rolex watches and nice watches in general. Not a huge demand for expensive watches but enough with the funds to keep a niche market going.
Same for EV's in a way. Not enough demand for the last decade or so to become mainstream on their own, but enough to keep them going.

Over the decades I have owned a few small cars which get good MPG's and are fun to drive. For a long time i could count on finding a higher end version of a typical econobox which got good MPG's. Companies catered to the demand and made them. I bought a 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R when new which was plenty of fun and quick and got over 30+ MPG's overall even with spirited driving. Think early Fast & Furious films. A lot of people hopped up the "rice burners" but not all of us. I kept mine stock so had the factory emission equipment in place.

I bought a replacement Sentra in 2001 with the same running gear as the 1991 SE-R. It gets better MPG's and has other improvements. I am disappointed that I can no longer find a decent new small car replacement now days. Many manufacturers no longer make small compact sedans. I suspect due to looming mandates.

Lets face it. Had the EV's, BEV's and hybrids been desirable then plenty of folks would have bought them and created demand for more. No mandates needed. Show me a hybrid or BEV which improves over my 2001 Sentra and I will change my tune or at least take a serious look.
 

K4fxd

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I find the "use force for compliance" people think corporations are evil and governments are benign.

Corporations are a group of people who want to sell you something.

Governments are groups of people who can throw you in jail.

Honestly where do you think the evil will thrive?

How does a person become a millionaire after 4 years of making 120K per.
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