Gen 1 Copperhead ECU 15-17 compatibility??

[zackmd1]

Ok so I know alot of you are wondering why the hell I am asking about a gen 1 ECU in a 15+ forum.... (and mods if this is not the place then please move) Basically I have a project in mind (I have had this for awhile actually) in which I want to swap a built 4.7l Twin turbo (4.6 4v with coyote internals increasing displacement to 289ci or 4.75L) into a 15-17 V6/EB rebuild. Because this is an older mod motor, this leaves me with two options with custom wiring....

1. Get a gen 2 ECU to run the 4.7l. Not sure if this is possible due to the missing cam sensors and different firing order to name a few... This brings up the question, is a wasted spark ignition setup possible with a gen 2 ECU? That would eliminate the cam sensor problems.
2. Swap a gen 1 Copperhead ECU into the 15-17. This brings up the question as to if the copperhead ECU can even talk to the rest of the vehicle for functioning gauges and such.

My question I guess is, has anyone seen any engine swap projects similar to this? Do any vendors/tuners on this site have any input to share? I have been attempting to contact tuners to varying degrees of success. Not one that I have contacted so far has given me a straight answer on if any of these two options are possible...

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[NoVaGT]

While I can't answer your question, I'd suggest that there's easier ways to put a built modern motor into your car.

Ford offers complete Coyote motors with harness and ECU all set to go.

Food for thought.

 

[zackmd1]

While I can't answer your question, I'd suggest that there's easier ways to put a built modern motor into your car.

Ford offers complete Coyote motors with harness and ECU all set to go.

Food for thought.

Yes I know..... I wouldn't be asking the question if I wanted to go that route instead....

 

[80FoxCoupe]

What transmission will you run? Holley efi can run the engine and a 4r70w. But you are on your own on integration with the remaining modules of the car.

 

[zackmd1]

What transmission will you run? Holley efi can run the engine and a 4r70w. But you are on your own on integration with the remaining modules of the car.

And that’s my issue. There are plenty of stand alone ECU options out there but I would prefer to keep as much of the OEM systems functioning as I can. I have seen a few swaps recently that go the dual ecu route but they usually always have compromises.

This motor is so close to a coyote (a lot more then die hard coyote fans like to admit) that a gen 2 ecu could run it IF the ecu can be put into a wasted spark ignition mode and eliminate the cam sensor issue. Other issues such as firing order can be solved via wiring if not possible through a tune.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

And that’s my issue. There are plenty of stand alone ECU options out there but I would prefer to keep as much of the OEM systems functioning as I can. I have seen a few swaps recently that go the dual ecu route but they usually always have compromises.

This motor is so close to a coyote (a lot more then die hard coyote fans like to admit) that a gen 2 ecu could run it IF the ecu can be put into a wasted spark ignition mode and eliminate the cam sensor issue. Other issues such as firing order can be solved via wiring if not possible through a tune.

Honestly, id just trade in the EB on a GT

 

[zackmd1]

Honestly, id just trade in the EB on a GT

So again...... this is a question for a CONCEPT that I have. I do not have an S550 currently that I would do this to. It’s an idea for a project car.... I’m asking the question to see if its feasible....

 

[Vegas5OH]

why are you like this

 

[zackmd1]

There's no way the TC-1791 pcm & the copperhead PCM will run a pre-coyote modular engine. Your gonna need a aftermarket control pack then try to get it to communicate with the BCM & trans. Don't believe me, call a company that specializes in ford swaps: Power by the Hour.

Have you tried? If so please share the details of said attempt. Otherwise how do you know? Do you think Ford completely changed the CAN bus protocols between 14 and 15? I bet you a lot of items actually do work between a copperhead ecu and an s550. Of course we are not talking about a plug and play solution. That is not in the cards for a swap like this. The question is how much stuff works and are there fixes for the stuff that doesn’t work...

And yea I would love to talk to power by the hour but I have asked these questions multiple times and never received an answer.

 

[Balr14]

If you can find an ECU that will run the engine, you can address compatibility issues with other systems with an Arduino board. Arduino coding isn't very difficult. I know a guy who uses a GM ECU to control all the systems in a Porsche, with Arduino.

 

[zackmd1]

The question really boils down to whether the Gen 2 PCM can be made to run a V8 in a wasted spark configuration. The entire sensor package, throttle body, and accessories would be needed but that is actually relatively easy to do. The only thing that can't be directly swapped is the cam sensors/trigger wheels. That is why it is key to know if the PCM can be tuned to run a wasted spark ignition, thus eliminating the need for cam sensors. If that is possible, technically ANY V8 (without VCT) could be made to run in an S550 chassis.

 

[WildHorse]

technically ANY V8 (without VCT) could be made to run in an S550 chassis.

Technically you are correct. Just ask the guy across the pond that put a boss 429 in his S550.

 

[AceS550]

The copperhead PCM wouldn’t have a problem running the older style modular engines. It will come down to whether a tuner would be willing to work with you on the adaptations.

The main thing the PCM needs to know is how many teeth are on the crankshaft and camshaft trigger wheels.

Even if your tuner couldn’t change the programmed firing order, you can still modify the wiring to the ignition coils/injectors to get the desired cylinders to fire in the correct order (like swapping spark plug wire positioning on a distributor)

 

[zackmd1]

The copperhead PCM wouldn’t have a problem running the older style modular engines. It will come down to whether a tuner would be willing to work with you on the adaptations.

The main thing the PCM needs to know is how many teeth are on the crankshaft and camshaft trigger wheels.

Even if your tuner couldn’t change the programmed firing order, you can still modify the wiring to the ignition coils/injectors to get the desired cylinders to fire in the correct order (like swapping spark plug wire positioning on a distributor)

Exactly my thoughts which is why I think a gen 2 pcm is capable of running a mod motor (crank trigger is the same for starters). The issue boils down to the odd trigger wheels used on the coyote camshafts that I have been unable to find any information on what the teeth of the trigger wheels correspond to on the cam.

 

[Cobra Jet]

You’re not converting your Tesla over to a Coyote are you?

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