Fuel mixes for those battling 91 oct

[sigintel]

Post up any fuel mixes you have heard of.
Here is a 91 mix from living in Colorado and hooning housemates WRX STI:

Supposedly 93-95 octane from 89-91:
Empty clean and dry 55gal race fuel drum to fill:
40 gal 91 oct
5 ethyl acetate
2 E85
8 toluene
2oz. 2 stroke oil (mix into toluene before adding toluene)
Transfer pump has return leg so it can be used to mix fuel for a couple minutes before filling up.

Supposedly 93-94:
Have also used 91 + 1 gal toluene + 1 gal ethyl acetate each fill up
5 gallon toluene container had 1oz 2 stroke oil.

According to tune behavior, these were likely even a couple points higher octane than we aimed for. Mixes came from ex airforce pilot neighbor who had become a professor teaching navigation systems and still flew gen av. We paid very little for both the ethyl acetate and toluene from what I recall.

*edit: links to "state of the art" fuel info examples just found. Weve come a long way babe.

2016:
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2016/06/f32/ft039_miles_2016_o_web.pdf

1945:
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/35/jresv35n4p273_A1b.pdf

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[ahl395]

Seems easier to just run meth injection, no mixing all kinds of fuels and having to fill your tank at home.

Either way though, very interesting

 

[sigintel]

Seems easier to just run meth injection, no mixing all kinds of fuels and having to fill your tank at home.
Either way though, very interesting

Nice!
Both solutions are a hassle but still valid.
Meth inj requires install and you still have to mix and store meth.
Either solution still ends up in the combustion chamber.
Difference is whether it is injected using existing fuel injection system instead of separate system.

Itd be interesting to compare initial setup time and cost vs running costs between the two. I suspect meth might be cheaper long run?

Post up your mix?
Where you get your meth?
Whats the cost and how do they sell it?
What you store it in?
Pics of install?
Tank and pump in trunk?
How many tanks fuel before refill meth?

 

[ahl395]

Nice!
Both solutions are a hassle but still valid.
Meth inj requires install and you still have to mix and store meth.
Either solution still ends up in the combustion chamber.
Difference is whether it is injected using existing fuel injection system instead of separate system.

Itd be interesting to compare initial setup time and cost vs running costs between the two. I suspect meth might be cheaper long run?

Post up your mix?
Where you get your meth?
Whats the cost and how do they sell it?
What you store it in?
Pics of install?
Tank and pump in trunk?
How many tanks fuel before refill meth?

Meth injection's downsides are what you listed definitely. Since it is injected through a secondary aftermarket system that does make it less reliable. Some kits are also better quality and more reliable than others. Higher quality kits will be a higher initial cost. Kits generally range from $400 to $800 from the research I've done. Also, meth can really only be used on engines with FI. Most people with octane problems are FI, but still another downside.

I don't have my system in (well parts of it) but have everything ready except my tank.

I plan on buying VP M1 straight methanol, which can be bought for about $50 for 5gal, and then buying distilled water which you can get at the grocery store for $1-2, and mixing it myself. I'll run a 50/50 or 60meth/40water mix. Buying the M1 and mixing it turns out to be about $5.40/gal. Compared to buying pre-mixed Boost Juice which is $44 w/shipping. Turns out to be $11/gal. Granted this is provided you can buy M1 locally and not pay hazmat shipping.

There are a few places local to me that sell VP M1, you can contact VP Fuels for a list of distributors in your area. It comes in a 5gal drum. Once I mix it I'll store it in washer fluid containers.

Which brings me to another point, you can also use -20 washer fluid as your methanol. It contains 30% methanol average and would be extremely cheap. Although only 30% methanol doesnt perform as well as 50%+

Depending on the personal choice many people mount the pump in the engine bay and use the washer fluid tank as the meth tank. Not much capacity though. If you want more capacity you can put the pump and bigger tank in the trunk, this is what I am doing.

Meth usage varies by person and driving habits. The good thing is that it is only injecting over a certain boost level, so you don't actually use much of it. Snow Performance estimates 1gal meth per tank of gas. There are many factors though so it's hard to estimate.

Sorry to derail your thread with methanol, but I figured I'd mention it since it was related lol.

 

[SVT-DADDY]

8oz of Torco or Octanium(half a bottle) will get you to right around 93. My trail snowmobile pushes 20lbs of boost and makes around 270 hp.

In the north country the best I can do is 91. 8oz of Torco on every fill up keeps everything happy. If I am lake racing I just drop in the whole bottle.

It sounds like more of a pain in the ass than it is. I just keep a bottle with me at all times. It's way cheaper and easier than the alternatives.

 

[moffetts]

Yeah, I'm on the MMT bandwagon, too. It would be easier to go E85 than it would be to fart around with mixing up my own race gas in my garage, and that's saying something because there's only two E85 stations anywhere near me.

 

[Bartly]

Something I read where it comes to mixing methanol and water is to use the specific gravity of each. So 1 cup of 100% methanol + 1 cup distilled water does not equal 50/50. Just thought I'd mention since it had the word mixing, so figured it was half pertaining to the subject. Lol.

 

[superman07]

In My experience Torco is not cost effective for treating a 16 gallon tank. I tried. If your super low mile driver maybe. Also didn't like turning my sensors orange. They say its safe but there is an official research paper that shows MMT will degrade cats and sensors over time. Im at 23k miles so no MMT for me anymore. I have 1 can in reserve only for an instance of fouled or bad fuel.

 

[Dr. Norts]

Post up any fuel mixes you have heard of.
Here is a 91 mix from living in Colorado and hooning housemates WRX STI:

Supposedly 93-95 octane from 89-91:
Empty clean and dry 55gal race fuel drum to fill:
40 gal 91 oct
5 ethyl acetate
2 E85
8 toluene
2oz. 2 stroke oil (mix into toluene before adding toluene)
Transfer pump has return leg so it can be used to mix fuel for a couple minutes before filling up.

Supposedly 93-94:
Have also used 91 + 1 gal toluene + 1 gal ethyl acetate each fill up
5 gallon toluene container had 1oz 2 stroke oil.

According to tune behavior, these were likely even a couple points higher octane than we aimed for. Mixes came from ex airforce pilot neighbor who had become a professor teaching navigation systems and still flew gen av. We paid very little for both the ethyl acetate and toluene from what I recall.

2 stroke oil? I don't get that one. Can you explain?

 

[dubster99]

Probably for lubrication.

 

[superman07]

Valve and upper cyclider lubrication I expect

 

[sigintel]

Sorry to derail your thread with methanol, but I figured I'd mention it since it was related lol.

Not at all. Meth is still an amendment or admixture to the fuel charge.
How it gets there is a little different vs just adding booster to the whole tank.

Its actually two concepts together:
1. Only adding when it actually makes a difference.
When not in boost and load, any octane booster is just being burned needlessly.
2. Adding higher octane or detonation reducing mixture to fuel.
Meth is very effective at cooling charge temps as well as inhibiting detonation.

The separate injection system for meth is designed to handle meth's downsides such as possible damage if mixed into the stock fuel system and possibly incompatible stability if attempted to be mixed directly into the tank.

With Xylene/Toluene above 5%, its typical to add upper cylinder and fuel pump lubricity via aviation grade 2 cycle oil (Maxima, Philips Rotax, etc).

8oz of Torco or Octanium(half a bottle) will get you to right around 93. My trail snowmobile pushes 20lbs of boost and makes around 270 hp.
In the north country the best I can do is 91. 8oz of Torco on every fill up keeps everything happy. If I am lake racing I just drop in the whole bottle.

That is wicked sick shiz... 270hp snowmobile??
Wait, jetski or snowmobile? You mean frozen lake racing?
You ever been up to West Yellowstone for the snowmobile racing end of season?
Its like Sturgis on snow.

Probably for lubrication.

Valve and upper cyclider lubrication I expect

2 stroke oil? I don't get that one. Can you explain?

Correct, fuel pump and upper cylinder protection. All stock fuel has some components that help with those issues. When you add straight solvent, you may sequester the trace amount of lubricity to the point the fuel pump and upper cylinder may see needless wear. It evidently only takes a trace amount of lubricity to have no issue, but evidently that also means you can tie up that trace with aggressive solvents.

Those mixes are likely wwwaay over kill both in octane boost and lubrication from what I understood. It was so cool it worked that he thought more was better and I happily pitched in cause we could get from Boulder to Breck in 44 minutes at 6AM on a powder day. Either toluene or ethyl acetate alone is worth 3 points at 10% on 89. Together with the ethanol in the fuel, there was supposedly complex chemistry where the ethyl acetate inhibits combustion onset. I could be getting that wrong. If I recall correctly, the 2 gal E85 was actually to lower the fuel density back closer to E10-15 pump gas.

 

[bew]

At least 16oz of Torco with every fill-up here. In the hot Phoenix summer, I double it.

I've found it most cost effective to order the 5 gallon drums from Amazon and I then partition it out into the smaller 32oz Torco cans. I've been using Torco for 20k miles (37k on the clock now) without any issues.

 

[gsxr1300]

check out boostane

https://boostane.com/

 

[ahl395]

Something I read where it comes to mixing methanol and water is to use the specific gravity of each. So 1 cup of 100% methanol + 1 cup distilled water does not equal 50/50. Just thought I'd mention since it had the word mixing, so figured it was half pertaining to the subject. Lol.

Yep, correct. Here's a good chart for the volume/weight measurements of different mixes. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f303/water-meth-mixing-dummies-chart-153691/

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