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Former S197 5.0 Owners

Jmtoast

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Mustangs are slow
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Shnngns5.0

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My mt82 2014 gt ran decent, real well in face. 12.30 car asit sat, base model with a bunch of suspension work, weighed 3,450 without me in it. Felt like a fox behind the wheel. Bought my a10 2019 gt, and man, while it's about the most boring acceleration, the '19 blows that '14 away in every aspect. Haven't put it on a track yet, but playing around, it pulls around a couple friends of mine s197's that trap 118, pretty hard midrange and up top.
 

Meatball

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It isnt just in your head. The 15-17 S550s are slower in 1/4 mile performance than the S197 counterparts. 18+ with manuals are a bit quicker and the 18+ A10s are a lot quicker than the S197s. I had a 15 PP M6 car and I immediately regretted it coming from a 13 track pack.
You're definitely right about the 18+ A10, a stock one can take a manual Hellcat if the driver isn't on top of things. But you're definitely wrong about the Coyote-powered S197s being faster than the manual 15-17s, they're slightly slower. My standard is C&D since they use standardized techniques and condition-corrected values, and they got the 0-60, et and trap speeds all equal or superior with the 15-17. Here they are:
2011 manual: 4.6, 13.2 at 109
2013 manual: 4.5, 13.0 at 111

2015 manual: 4.5, 13.0 at 113
2016 manual: 4.3, 12.9 at 113
2016 manual: 4.4, 13.0 at 112

2018 manual: 4.3, 12.6 at 115

But I know what the op and others mean about the S550s feeling less fast than they are. I think the driver feels upturns in the torque curve as "power"...which is why, for example, the stock evo I rented once felt insanely fast. = LOW power, then a big surge in power as the big laggy turbo kicks in, feels awesome. Coyotes, all of them, are way way faster by all measurements but a flat torque curve hides it.
 

Mustang406

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You're definitely right about the 18+ A10, a stock one can take a manual Hellcat if the driver isn't on top of things. But you're definitely wrong about the Coyote-powered S197s being faster than the manual 15-17s, they're slightly slower. My standard is C&D since they use standardized techniques and condition-corrected values, and they got the 0-60, et and trap speeds all equal or superior with the 15-17. Here they are:
2011 manual: 4.6, 13.2 at 109
2013 manual: 4.5, 13.0 at 111

2015 manual: 4.5, 13.0 at 113
2016 manual: 4.3, 12.9 at 113
2016 manual: 4.4, 13.0 at 112

2018 manual: 4.3, 12.6 at 115

But I know what the op and others mean about the S550s feeling less fast than they are. I think the driver feels upturns in the torque curve as "power"...which is why, for example, the stock evo I rented once felt insanely fast. = LOW power, then a big surge in power as the big laggy turbo kicks in, feels awesome. Coyotes, all of them, are way way faster by all measurements but a flat torque curve hides it.
https://www.torquenews.com/106/2015-ford-mustang-gt-slower-2014-models/amp
 

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Meatball

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Well, that's fair of you to point out...the article you pointed out referenced Motor Trend, also a good source.. It's interesting to look at the trap speeds from the MT articles:
2013: 4.3, 12.7 at 111.1
2015: 4.4, 12.8 at 112.2
This higher trap speed is consistent with the C&D data I showed before. If you cherry pick this comparison the S197 gets through the traps slightly ahead with slightly lower mph, but if you consider the C&D data they are close with the 15-17 equaling or beating it in 0-60 and et and hitting a consistently faster trap speed. I think that's likely due to the stock S550s being harder to launch due to their IRS over the solid-axle S197s.

I don't think it's right to say the 15-17s are "slower in 1/4 mile performance" than the s197 unless you disregard that other info.
 

WildHorse

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You're my 2017 brother but I have to disagree with you there. The A10 is a monster.
Haha I can make shit up too.. just like torquenews! :giggle:
 
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BLUE DEVIL

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My 2014 car stared out life as a very early 2014 MY production date and was registered as a Ford Motor Company car in Michigan. The nav system had some interesting locations saved. maybe it had one of those mythical strong motors in it. It was a tremendously exhilarating ride, and this 2017 is just not the same........yet???

I do feel the improved handling and chassis refinement. Is the Ford Performance Power Pack 2 gonna make me not regret the purchase of this 2017? I really don't want a supercharger or turbo, don't want the supporting mods. And not wanting to have to wring out the rpm's to feel a rush.
 

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Biggus Dickus

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I had a 2011 GT M6 w/ 3.73 that ran great for 190+K mi when I sold it. But, the interior was crappy compared to the S550 and I went through 5 or 6 A/C units before I just gave up (sold it on X-mas eve 2018). It also consumed prodigious amounts of oil. But it served me well overall.

That said, my 19 PP2 is in another world. Hell, this outperforms an LS Boss. Only "mod" is a dedicated E85 tune (otherwise stock to the air filter) and I have a car that puts out probably 510-520ish HP and can probably outrun a 13-14 GT500 in the twisties.

No, I don't miss my 2011 GT.
 

Meatball

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My 2014 car stared out life as a very early 2014 MY production date and was registered as a Ford Motor Company car in Michigan. The nav system had some interesting locations saved. maybe it had one of those mythical strong motors in it. It was a tremendously exhilarating ride, and this 2017 is just not the same........yet???

I do feel the improved handling and chassis refinement. Is the Ford Performance Power Pack 2 gonna make me not regret the purchase of this 2017? I really don't want a supercharger or turbo, don't want the supporting mods. And not wanting to have to wring out the rpm's to feel a rush.
I’ve only driven a PP3, the one you definitely have to wring out the rpms on. It was fast but with a smooth torque curve, which it doesn’t sound like you’re looking for. The fppp2 people seem to like their cars a lot, I’m sure it’s more in line with what you’re looking for esp with a nice torque boost. There’s a multiple-hundred page thread over on the 5.0 bolt-ons forum, and I see someone posted about a power pack 2 just yesterday on a new thread. I suggest you start a new one over there and you’ll find people with firsthand knowledge. The cal will definitely improve throttle response. If you have a base model with a 3.31 rear end (manual?) you might also consider a shorter pumpkin, like a 3.73 or higher, that can make a big difference in the “feel” off the line and in the midrange.

*edit*. Sorry I’m on my phone, I see in your sig you have a pp already so have a manual and 3.73. I’d say if you’re dedicated to your car consider the pp2 and maybe >4 rear end, but I have zero experience with either. Once you put the fppp2 on your powertrain warranty essentially drops to 3/36. If you’re looking to maybe move beyond your car you prob won’t find what you’re after in an 18+ manual unless you go e85 if that’s a possibility, they have very tall gearing. The a10 is a beast if you like autos. Its too bad you aren’t interested in supercharging, your car is a great platform for that already, although ironically your rear end may be a bit too short.
 
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BmacIL

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My 2014 car stared out life as a very early 2014 MY production date and was registered as a Ford Motor Company car in Michigan. The nav system had some interesting locations saved. maybe it had one of those mythical strong motors in it. It was a tremendously exhilarating ride, and this 2017 is just not the same........yet???

I do feel the improved handling and chassis refinement. Is the Ford Performance Power Pack 2 gonna make me not regret the purchase of this 2017? I really don't want a supercharger or turbo, don't want the supporting mods. And not wanting to have to wring out the rpm's to feel a rush.
The power pack 2 will definitely make it feel more visceral.

One of the best ways to make the car perform better and feel quicker is removing sources of isolation and deflection from the chassis and suspension.
 

Zinc03svt

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I had a bolt on 14 GT/CS. Did not dig the s550 at first. The only ones that looked good to me where the pp1 cars. 2018 pp1 pushed me over the edge. Performance wise my 18 smokes the S197.
 

BluSnake

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I'll share my experiences. I'm very glad I didn't trade-in my S197 for my GT350!!!

My 2011 GT is a base (300A) trim pkg w only 2 options: Brembo pkg and 3.73 rear end. Previous owner installed a Steeda CAI and SCT tune, it currently has 51k miles. I run RE-71R's in 265/40R19's. The rest is stock. No idea what my actual HP/TQ are - never dyno'd it.

Purchased my 2019 GT350 (900A) in October and currently has 1200 miles. 4 Options: CF dash, stripes, car cover, and handling pkg. No aftermarket mods...yet.

On the street: I should preface, I've never done timed 1/4 miles w/ either car - I'm a road course rat. My only street comparison is me against my 22 year old son at stop lights and long straight country roads.
GT350 is disappointing in/around town. Off the line, low end torque is bland. I need around 4000 rpms to get a chirp from the tires and a decent launch (yes, I agree Cup2's are amazingly grippy). A millisecond later, you've revved out and need a shift to 2nd. On the other hand, my '11 GT has tons of neck-snapping torque off the line. I usually launch around 3000 rpm. It pulls hard to 7k and is typically 1/2 car length ahead of GT350 when both of us shift to 2nd. Around 60-65 mph, GT350 catches up and blows by the '11 GT. It doesn't get the looks, but around town, my '11 GT is way more fun.

On the Track: No comparison! GT350 is "at home" and smokes the '11 GT. I just keep GT350s revs in its sweet spot 4000-7000, and my '11 GT hasn't a chance. With magneride and Cup2's, it sticks like glue. Don't get me wrong, both cars are hell of a lot of fun on a road course. It's just the GT350 is way better at getting around the track.

They are very different cars and really enjoy them both.
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