Ford Racing ProCal Tune

[yomamma219]

Thought I'd chime in and break up the dialogue into a trialogue

I've seen some posts mentioning different software versions of the tune. Does anyone know what the specific differences are? Also are we responsible for updating the tune if a software update gets released?

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[lizardrko]

Thought I'd chime in and break up the dialogue into a trialogue

I've seen some posts mentioning different software versions of the tune. Does anyone know what the specific differences are? Also are we responsible for updating the tune if a software update gets released?

There have been a couple updates. One update was tune related, it fixed a dead spot above 5K rpm that some people were experiencing. The other updates have been to the procal software itself, if u already installed the updated tune file prior to them releasing the update to the software no need to reinstall, its not tune related. And yes, you have to install the updates yourself. You can do the updates without a shop and maintain the warranty.

 

[jbailer]

The absolute temp will change depending on what your doing. My temps get around 20~25F higher while cruising because I'm not under boost. Even higher when just idling or in stop and go traffic (at slow speeds).

I'm not suggesting that. What I was suggesting is the temp rise over ambient when under full boost at speed. That's where the engine will produce the most amount of heat is in 4th and 5th gears fully loaded all the way through the RPM band.

In gears 1-3 even the Stage 1 units perform flawlessly because the load time is relatively low due to how long it takes to rev through those gears. As the gearing gets all the engine has longer dwell time at each RPM range.

So 4000 RPM to 6500 RPM will take 3-5x longer in 5th gear than in 4th gear. That entire time the turbo is going to be pushing hot air through the FMIC so the mass of the IC no longer is going to provide that thermal lag benefit and it's going to be dependent on it's ability to transfer heat.

I forget who, I think it was Glenn G., saw the MAP Race unit in a 5th gear top end pull see temps hit 135F at 140 MPH. A higher efficiency unit would provide lower temps. His Stage 1 unit provided about the same results (which is why he was disappointed).

Now his setup is very different from ours and the MAP FMIC's are very different design than the ATM or even the Levels due to core configurations. I am thinking a stepped core in the EB's may provide the best, while thicker cores are less efficient assuming full air flow, they may be more efficient to a degree because the area behind the crash bar gets quite a bit less air flow.

The ATM provides similar frontal area to the large flat cores, but also has the depth in the area that sees higher flow rates, combined with the rounded bars (velocity stacks), I'm thinking it may be able to measurably and meaningfully outperform even my large 20x14x3.5 in Levels Gen 3 unit.

Worst case is that if it doesn't, Dave at ATM said I could return it if their unit didn't out perform my current unit pending I didn't scratch the crap out of it. So figured it's worth a try since the only things you can do to add power is the FP Calibration, their CAI and the inter cooler, I want to make the most of the FMIC.

We'll see however. I'm going to get the car dyno'ed as is, then again after the ATM. Also going to do another 4th gear pull at the same spot with the ATM and compare the data logs to see if there's a decrease in charge temps vs. ambient.

The temp rise is linear relative to ambient. If it's 80F and your temp rise is 15F you'll see 95F charge temps. The same FMIC would produce 105F charge temps on a 90F day. A better inter cooler will produce a lower temp differential relative to ambient regardless of the absolute ambient.

I disagree based on my testing. I'm not talking about cruising, no boost. I'm talking about 1st - 3rd gear 100% throttle to redline. You will see quite a temperature variation based on the weather conditions. While I definitely believe the ATM perform better, what I'm trying to say is the testing is very difficult to match conditions. You can't just say if it's 80* and I got a 15* increase over IAT, then when it's 90* it should only go up to 105*, it doesn't work like that. You can even test on 2 different 80* days and get quite a bit of difference with the same setup depending on the weather. I haven't figured out what all makes the difference, relative humidity, barometric pressure, sun/clouds, etc. It would definitely not be an accurate test to run with 2 different FMICs, compare the temps and say well the temperature outside were about the same. I'm not talking from theory because I don't know it, I'm talking from experience with no changes in my setup, only changes in the weather and sometimes the temps were close.

 

[TheLion]

I disagree based on my testing. I'm not talking about cruising, no boost. I'm talking about 1st - 3rd gear 100% throttle to redline. You will see quite a temperature variation based on the weather conditions. While I definitely believe the ATM perform better, what I'm trying to say is the testing is very difficult to match conditions. You can't just say if it's 80* and I got a 15* increase over IAT, then when it's 90* it should only go up to 105*, it doesn't work like that. You can even test on 2 different 80* days and get quite a bit of difference with the same setup depending on the weather. I haven't figured out what all makes the difference, relative humidity, barometric pressure, sun/clouds, etc. It would definitely not be an accurate test to run with 2 different FMICs, compare the temps and say well the temperature outside were about the same. I'm not talking from theory because I don't know it, I'm talking from experience with no changes in my setup, only changes in the weather and sometimes the temps were close.

Might be related to how the PCM is reacting to the ambient conditions, temp, humidity, air density (baro). All of that will affect timing, fueling, power output and hence out let temps etc.

I haven't experienced what your describing to any significant degree, all of my data logs have been very consistent with about a 10F ~ 15F temp rise over ambient at WOT in 4th gear regardless of ambient's absolute.

Some minor variance is to be expected based on engine output, but the transfer of thermal energy is relatively the same. At 70F the FMIC isn't going to be more efficient than at 90F. It's ability to transfer say 100W of thermal energy is the same at 70F as it is at 90F.

But yes, I'd imagine engine power output and efficiency will vary depending on the day and that may affect how much heat it's going to produce on the compressor outlet side, that will certainly affect temp rise.

That's why I want to do BOTH a dyno run AND a real world test. Between the two I should be able to gather enough data to have a somewhat reliable baseline as to how much of a difference, if any, the ATM inter cooler made over the Levels.

Weather the end result is IAT2 temps on average or power output (SAE corrected so it should be reasonably accurate). But the ultimate tell tale sign would be higher power output or a broader power band. I am thinking if there is any measurably difference it will show up mostly at the top end where compressor outlet temps are at their highest. The FMIC efficiency will become the most critical at that point.

BTW anyone know when FP updated the calibration file to fix that issue?

 

[Spykexx]

I wonder if any 5.2's have crossed midwaymustang....hummm...the wheels are turning

They JUST had a crashed 5.2 come through with a perfect engine, but it sold almost immediately. I think it sold on FB through them before they even got a chance to put it on the site haha.

 

[lizardrko]

BTW anyone know when FP updated the calibration file to fix that issue?

Which issue? The one that fixed the dead spot? I think it was a while back, maybe a few months ago. I did not notice much difference if any.

 

[eco1]

Is there a replacement for Ford Performance Cold Air Intake filter (P/N: M-9603-M23) or a way to clean it?

Bad idea to add a pedalmax to the ford tune?

Does an Intercooler void the warranty?

Also hearing a weird draining noise sometimes when shutting the car off? I believe the sound is coming from somewhere near the steering wheel. Any ideas? Not sure if anyone else has heard that before? Vehicle has 20,000 miles.

Thanks in advance.

 

[lizardrko]

Is there a replacement for Ford Performance Cold Air Intake filter (P/N: M-9603-M23) or a way to clean it?

Bad idea to add a pedalmax to the ford tune?

Does an Intercooler void the warranty?

Also hearing a weird draining noise sometimes when shutting the car off? I believe the sound is coming from somewhere near the steering wheel. Any ideas? Not sure if anyone else has heard that before? Vehicle has 20,000 miles.

Thanks in advance.

Im sure there you can buy a replacement filter. I dont think you can clean it, its not a reusable filter.

Dont put pedalmax on the ford tune, no need to.

No, a FMIC will not void warranty

Not sure what the noises are, I hear similar sounds, but the car runs fine all the time, so I dont think much of it.

 

[TheLion]

Is there a replacement for Ford Performance Cold Air Intake filter (P/N: M-9603-M23) or a way to clean it?

Bad idea to add a pedalmax to the ford tune?

Does an Intercooler void the warranty?

Also hearing a weird draining noise sometimes when shutting the car off? I believe the sound is coming from somewhere near the steering wheel. Any ideas? Not sure if anyone else has heard that before? Vehicle has 20,000 miles.

Thanks in advance.

Regarding the filter: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9601-G

It's made by AEM, so you can use AEM's cleaner for their dry filters. Just spray it and rinse out under cold water. No oiling or anythign like that. I suggest buying an outerwear's pre-filter to go over the top of it, longer cleaning intervals for a street use and it won't impede flow enough to any measurable degree. Especially if your using a Velossatek Ram Air Duct.

Pedal Max: technically I don't think it alters anything but the pedal position signal, the FP calibration is quite a bit better than stock so why even use it? Might throw up red flags if something happened, but I don't know if this could be definitively answered. My advice is to stay away as I don't see it as necessary.

Inter Cooler: cooling system upgrades don't void your warranty any more than a CAI would on an NA car. As long as it cools at least as good as the factory unit it does not adversely affect the cars safety pending proper install.

You get into warranty issues when you start altering the timing, fueling, waste gate control, turbo, down pipe etc. all which impact the reliability of the engine and peak power output.

Before the stock inter cooler heat soaks, it's going to make stated power, a better inter cooler won't affect that peak power, it just allows it to make that power far more often.

The inter cooler only cools the intake air, the PCM will automatically compensate for that change and will not command timing, boost, fueling etc. beyond safe limits unlike the above modifications. Any air to air exchanger can't cool beyond the ambient air (like an NA engine can only consume ambient air at it's coolest).

I would classify the inter cooler as an efficiency adder rather than a power adder, your max power ceiling is still determined by the FP Calibration, turbo design, down pipe, fuel etc, your only giving it optimal conditions to make that max power as much as it can.

Most people install the inter cooler before the tune and then get it certified as is with the inter cooler already installed which is what I did. The tech at my dealer didn't care and I even had after market charge pipes and DV+ valve. But those were the only engine mods and none of them alter any critical function or invalidate any of the temperature, altitude, barometric pressure maps etc.

Different dealers are different and some might give you fits about this or that, some might even make an issue about a CAI, but it's rare that such minor changes are ever even questioned by the dealers and they ultimately are not the ones who determine warranty coverage in the event of an engine failure. That's done by Ford corporate headquarters and the PCM is sent in for evaluation which is why people always have to wait 3-4 weeks before the work even begins.

Really what determines warranty is what Ford sees on the PCM data if a failure occurs. An inter cooler isn't going to alter the timing, knock sensing, fueling etc. beyond what FP determined and it isn't going to be the cause of the failure. That data will be present in the PCM logs during the failure condition. Once your certified you have a lot of backing behind you so long you don't don't start messing with things like the waste gate, down pipe etc. Keep the changes limited to the cooling system (inter cooler, charge pipes and radiator if you have a base model) and you'll be good.

What they care about is did some one alter a critical component that allowed the engine to operate in unsafe conditions and the evidence will be present on the PCM. Take the JMS boost max for example, some guy on youtube used it for a month and blew his otherwise stock EB engine, no warranty coverage.

Even though he could have unplugged it the PCM is going to show higher than normal boost conditions, the turbo can be checked for proper operation so the only explanation is a plug in module that altered the signal (that and he posted a youtube video lol). The PCM log shows all those conditions and the evidence will be quite clear the signals were being intercepted and altered based on what was commanded vs. what was actually occurring.

That's why I suggested above that if you want more power than the FP Calibration and an Inter Cooler can provide your better off trading up to or swapping in a Coyote V8 because you run into so many reliability issues for a daily driver. Now if it's a weekend toy you can afford more risk, but not for a Daily Driver you depend on like me. Gearing, FP Calibration and Inter Cooler completely transformed my Ecoboost and I'm about satisfied enough with it's performance once I get done comparing the Levels and ATM inter coolers.

 

[TheLion]

BTW, the user manual itself says that all cooling systems must be upgraded for track use. So you have even more grounds right there given there's a reference to cooling system upgrades in the user manual, Ford advertises their PP cars as "track ready".

While track use isn't typically covered under normal warranty, a cooling system modification is considered to be an acceptable direct OE replacement as long as it meets or exceeds the original specification. There's a difference between exceeding OE especs and altering them by nature (such as a down pipe or waste gate modification).

Using your vehicle on a dedicated road
course may result in degraded function
and failure of major systems such as the
engine, transmission and rear axle due to
the overheating of these systems. If you
intend to use your vehicle on a dedicated
road course, we suggest that you equip
your vehicle with racing-type coolers to
protect these three systems.

 

[Spykexx]

Ohhhhh crap. Totally forgot my GI bill stipend restarts next month. Tune should be coming even sooner!

 

[yomamma219]

So since the FMIC has gone on so long here I figured I'd add to it since I had a questions I did not see discussed any where else. Sorry in advance for furthering the demise of this thread.

Has anyone done an analysis yet to see if it is possible for excessive moisture to be condensed in an aftermarket intercooler? I imagine this would be under pretty extreme environmental conditions if it is even possible. Just a question that came to mind.

 

[stevnoof]

Ohhhhh crap. Totally forgot my GI bill stipend restarts next month. Tune should be coming even sooner!

Lmao same brother. Soon I can afford to pay my rent again. Summer sucks when your not taking classes.

 

[Spykexx]

Lmao same brother. Soon I can afford to pay my rent again. Summer sucks when your not taking classes.

Haha I go in the summer as well. But I get BAH + Stipend for 2-3 months starting in august . IC was bumped up a day and I should have it tomorrow!

 

[GJarrett]

Eventually when my batteries needs replaced I use one of those Air-weight LiPo battiers, that's another 25lbs lighter.

Link?

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