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jbailer

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Yes but those temperature differences will vary greatly depending on the day and conditions. I've monitored my temperature through my ATM FMIC and the actual temps and the temp difference over IAT change considerably depending on the conditions outside.
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TheLion

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Didn't you see in my overboosting post?!? Ford engineers walk on hallowed ground and would NEVER put a bad part in a car. These aren't flaws they are "Features". Apparently that is now an argument. :frusty:

I got my ATM from a member on here for a hell of a price, so i can't complain one bit! Sold axle-back from V6, and pretty much was free for me! :) Can't wait! Should be here Wednesday (Although UPS has it about 75 miles away so could be tomorrow!)
Why would they sell an ATM inter cooler? It's supposed to be the best unit around for the EB's, period. Unless maybe you go with a ridiculously huge race sized unit that's 17~19 inches tall.
 

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Why would they sell an ATM inter cooler? It's supposed to be the best unit around for the EB's, period. Unless maybe you go with a ridiculously huge race sized unit that's 17~19 inches tall.
He traded in for a GT
 
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Yes but those temperature differences will vary greatly depending on the day and conditions. I've monitored my temperature through my ATM FMIC and the actual temps and the temp difference over IAT change considerably depending on the conditions outside.
The absolute temp will change depending on what your doing. My temps get around 20~25F higher while cruising because I'm not under boost. Even higher when just idling or in stop and go traffic (at slow speeds).

I'm not suggesting that. What I was suggesting is the temp rise over ambient when under full boost at speed. That's where the engine will produce the most amount of heat is in 4th and 5th gears fully loaded all the way through the RPM band.

In gears 1-3 even the Stage 1 units perform flawlessly because the load time is relatively low due to how long it takes to rev through those gears. As the gearing gets all the engine has longer dwell time at each RPM range.

So 4000 RPM to 6500 RPM will take 3-5x longer in 5th gear than in 4th gear. That entire time the turbo is going to be pushing hot air through the FMIC so the mass of the IC no longer is going to provide that thermal lag benefit and it's going to be dependent on it's ability to transfer heat.

I forget who, I think it was Glenn G., saw the MAP Race unit in a 5th gear top end pull see temps hit 135F at 140 MPH. A higher efficiency unit would provide lower temps. His Stage 1 unit provided about the same results (which is why he was disappointed).

Now his setup is very different from ours and the MAP FMIC's are very different design than the ATM or even the Levels due to core configurations. I am thinking a stepped core in the EB's may provide the best, while thicker cores are less efficient assuming full air flow, they may be more efficient to a degree because the area behind the crash bar gets quite a bit less air flow.

The ATM provides similar frontal area to the large flat cores, but also has the depth in the area that sees higher flow rates, combined with the rounded bars (velocity stacks), I'm thinking it may be able to measurably and meaningfully outperform even my large 20x14x3.5 in Levels Gen 3 unit.

Worst case is that if it doesn't, Dave at ATM said I could return it if their unit didn't out perform my current unit pending I didn't scratch the crap out of it. So figured it's worth a try since the only things you can do to add power is the FP Calibration, their CAI and the inter cooler, I want to make the most of the FMIC.

We'll see however. I'm going to get the car dyno'ed as is, then again after the ATM. Also going to do another 4th gear pull at the same spot with the ATM and compare the data logs to see if there's a decrease in charge temps vs. ambient.

The temp rise is linear relative to ambient. If it's 80F and your temp rise is 15F you'll see 95F charge temps. The same FMIC would produce 105F charge temps on a 90F day. A better inter cooler will produce a lower temp differential relative to ambient regardless of the absolute ambient.
 
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TheLion

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He traded in for a GT
Smart guy :-). I figure since this is a DD and it's plenty fast to be fun, in maybe 7~10 years once it has 150k I'll do the 5.0 swap and retire it to a week end toy instead of a DD. I'm not sure the 5.0 is really good for a DD with as much driving as I do, 16 mpg city would really add up over several years. Plus the power band is all in the top end so I'd rarely get to use the power.

Rumor has it that Ford is working on a 12:1 compression ratio variant of the 5.0 to compete with GM's new 6L in the 2016' Camaro for 2018~2019 year.

By the 2.3T's normal service life (150k~200k miles) I'll be able to choose between the 5.2L flat plane or possibly the new higher compression 5.0 from some bad V8 drivers that generously donate their engines at a discount to us :D

I was seriously thinking of doing the same thing until the FP Calibration came out. No it's still not a 435 HP coyote, but with the gearing, calibration and FMIC it's got plenty of power to actually be fun to drive and to trade up I'd be throwing a way a bunch of money I put into suspension mods as well as the cost of the calibration, GT torsen diff and now the ATM inter cooler.

It just wouldn't make sense unless I had done it much sooner before I started modding, too much work to put it back (as most of the mods could transfer directly over), I'm better off enjoying the car as is and then doing the engine swap in 7~10 years...or maybe even in 4 years when it's paid off :-). I already have the 3.73 torsen from the GT PP car, so I'd just need to find a 5.0 with MT-82, the ECU and wiring harness.
 

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I was seriously thinking of doing the same thing until the FP Calibration came out. No it's not a 435 HP coyote, but with the gearing, calibration and FMIC it's got plenty of power to actually be fun to drive and to trade up I'd be throwing a way a bunch of money I put into suspension mods as well as the cost of the calibration, GT torsen diff and now the ATM inter cooler. It just wouldn't make sense, I'm better off enjoying the car as is and then doing the engine swap in 7~10 years...or maybe even in 4 years when it's paid off :-). I already have the 3.73 torsen from the GT PP car, so I'd just need to find a 5.0 with MT-82.
That's what I thought when I bought my EBPP. Got it for 24k OTD, I might as well throw a little money into it, and just ride it out till its paid off. For what I paid for mine I can't complain one bit!
 
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That's what I thought when I bought my EBPP. Got it for 24k OTD, I might as well throw a little money into it, and just ride it out till its paid off. For what I paid for mine I can't complain one bit!
Nope, that's what got me was the price. I paid 26k out the door after taxes, title and the 6 year triple care plan. I also figured if I got stuck with it and really hated it I could always do a V8 swap, it's a lot easier to do on a mustang than something non-standard like throwing a V8 into a Mazda MX-5 or BRZ etc. as it's the same chassis and drive train, it was designed around the V8 from the get go and you can buy factory parts instead of custom mounts, harnesses etc. which makes it a lot cheaper.

But it's pretty darn good right now, I really do actually enjoy driving the car now and don't find it lacking in power any more. Before it was just NOT fun to drive and didn't feel like a muscle car at all.

With the FP calibration and inter cooler alone you can easily out run pre-coyote GT's and Camaro SS's from that generation, and be on par with much more expensive cars like WRX STi's and 370Z's as they all make around 300~330 HP with similar weight (both are in the 3400lb range).

You can nip at the heels of a gen 2 coyote GT on the 1/4, but at higher speeds (like a 1/2 or 1 mile run) the GT will pull away quite a bit once you get into 5th gear.

Then again, there's the older first gen coyote that makes 412 hp, not 435, those ran low 13's on the 1/4, you might be able to eek out a win against a first gen stock coyote and the difference on a speed run would also be less pronounced as well. The V8's, even the first gen coyote, is 175 lbs heavier so most of that 75 HP advantage goes to moving the extra mass and isn't enough to make up for the added weight to a meaningful degree until you get to the gen 2 coyotes.

If memory serves correctly the gen one coyotes make 412 HP and 390 ft-lbs. It's really just the latest generation of V8's in the GT's and SS's in last 3~4 years that you can't compete against which is a small percentage of the total cars out there. And you can bet they paid a LOT more than we did for our EB's even with the mods :-).

http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/m5lp-1003-2011-ford-mustang-gt-50-coyote-engine/

Without the FP calibration and an inter cooler I don't think the EB makes sense, yah it runs a 1/4 mile within about .2 seconds of it's competitors (at it's price category), but it's just not fun to drive stock. The power band is so narrow and it heat soaks so quickly I feel likes there's way more chassis than car = not fun. But it's like a completely different animal with those two things (gearing in my case also helped as I had the overly tall 3.31's stock). It's a little pocket rocket now and I gave a gen 1 GT a neck and neck run for his money.
 

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Nope, that's what got me was the price. I paid 26k out the door after taxes, title and the 6 year triple care plan. I also figured if I got stuck with it and really hated it I could always do a V8 swap, it's a lot easier to do on a mustang than something non-standard like throwing a V8 into a Mazda MX-5 or BRZ etc. as it's the same chassis and drive train, it was designed around the V8 from the get go and you can buy factory parts instead of custom mounts, harnesses etc. which makes it a lot cheaper.

But it's pretty darn good right now, I really do actually enjoy driving the car now and don't find it lacking in power any more. Before it was just NOT fun to drive and didn't feel like a muscle car at all.

With the FP calibration and inter cooler alone you can easily out run pre-coyote GT's and Camaro SS's from that generation, and be on par with much more expensive cars like WRX STi's and 370Z's as they all make around 300~330 HP with similar weight (both are in the 3400lb range).

You can nip at the heels of a gen 2 coyote GT on the 1/4, but at higher speeds (like a 1/2 or 1 mile run) the GT will pull away quite a bit once you get into 5th gear.

Then again, there's the older first gen coyote that makes 400 hp, not 435, those ran low 13's on the 1/4, you might be able to eek out a win against a first gen stock coyote and the difference on a speed run would also be less pronounced as well. The V8's, even the first gen coyote, is 175 lbs heavier so most of that 65 HP advantage goes to moving the extra mass and isn't enough to make up for the added weight to a meaningful degree until you get to the gen 2 coyotes.

If memory serves correctly the gen one coyotes make 400 HP and 390 ft-lbs. It's really just the latest generation of V8's in the GT's and SS's in last 3~4 years that you can't compete against which is a small percentage of the total cars out there. And you can bet they paid a LOT more than we did for our EB's even with the mods :-).
Yea, seems to be a pretty cut and dry swap, Eco85 did it in like 7 days if I remember correctly. And I live 10 minutes from MidwayMustangs where he got his engine from. We always have 5.0's coming in.
 
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That's my plan then. Drive the 2.3L and get it's life out of it as I originally planned then re-use the chassis / suspension to build a V8 beast weekend toy on the cheap :D. Sounds like a win / win to me as I get to drive a 335 hp car as my daily driver for the next 4~7 years and then turn it into a dream car that sucks your eye balls back into you skull when you step on the gas.

That's an impressive price, from the pics, your getting a factory super charged coyote with only 8k miles, with the entire wiring harness, ECU, tyranny and cluster. To me that makes more sense than a built 2.3L / bit turbo. That super charged V8 will make big power and torque all day long until the end of time without worrying about throwing a rod or cracking a piston. The 2.3L makes sense to mod up to a point, but from a cost perspective at some point your just doing it to see if you can do it rather than does it make sense.

I suppose it does make the most sense to just get it all from one car and have the ECU programmed at the dealer for a new set of keys. All you'd need is a GT drive shaft, an FP cat back exhaust, radiator and the super charger inter cooler pump which you could just buy after market and that would be one fast ride!
 

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That's my plan then. Drive the 2.3L and get it's life out of it as I originally planned then re-use the chassis / suspension to build a V8 beast weekend toy on the cheap :D. Sounds like a win / win to me as I get to drive a 335 hp car as my daily driver for the next 4~7 years and then turn it into a dream car that sucks your eye balls back into you skull when you step on the gas.

That's an impressive price, from the pics, your getting a factory super charged coyote with only 8k miles, with the entire wiring harness, ECU, tyranny and cluster. I suppose it does make the most sense to just get it all from one car and have the ECU programmed at the dealer for a new set of keys. All you'd need is a GT drive shaft, radiator and the super charger inter cooler which you could just buy after market and that would be one fast ride!
Already has driveshaft, it says you just have to changed the lines to the intercoole as they were damaged.
 
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Already has driveshaft, it says you just have to changed the lines to the intercoole as they were damaged.
Lol, so I looked at trading in my EB at one point, and I'd loose 5k over what I owe for the trade in prices here. So it would make far more sense to just take out a good 2.3L with the harness, ECU, FP tune etc and sell that cheap and for about 8k I could do the swap (I'm assuming I'd only get about 3k for the 2.3L and there's some added cost of the Gt exhaust / engine lift rental etc.).

If my 2.3L ever goes belly up for some reason after the 60k power train warranty that's what I'm doin!
 

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Lol, so I looked at trading in my EB at one point, and I'd loose 5k over what I owe for the trade in prices here. So it would make far more sense to just take out a good 2.3L with the harness, ECU, FP tune etc and sell that cheap and for about 8k I could do the swap (I'm assuming I'd only get about 3k for the 2.3L and there's some added cost of the Gt exhaust / engine lift rental etc.).

If my 2.3L ever goes belly up for some reason after the 60k power train warranty that's what I'm doin!
If anything happens after warranty, that makes the most sense as you are going to pay roughly the same cost New 2.3 vs used 5.0. And most of all the 5.0's that MWM gets are 30k or less. (Honestly I don't think I could ever fully trust a used takeout 2.3L)
 
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If anything happens after warranty, that makes the most sense as you are going to pay roughly the same cost New 2.3 vs used 5.0. And most of all the 5.0's that MWM gets are 30k or less. (Honestly I don't think I could ever fully trust a used takeout 2.3L)
That was my line of thinking, if you had to pay for a new engine yourself, going with a built block and big turbo bla bla bla makes no sense when you could buy a used factory super charged V8 that make way more power all day long without all the worry of it throwing a rod on just regular pump gas.

The 2.3T makes sense up to a point, but it relies on efficiency and pushing beyond a certain point requires significant upgrades that add a total cost to nearly what a V8 can do but at much less risk. I think the Ford Performance Calibration with an Inter Cooler and a diff swap for non-pp cars is the about the point at which it makes sense from a reliability / performance / cost standpoint. If you blow an engine (which to my knowledge is VERY rare if not almost non-existent with a FP factory calibration), then your looking at 3k~4k for a good big turbo, another 3k~4k for just a built bottom end, 1.5k for a HPFP to handle E85 or E30, another 2k for the top end (valve train, cams etc.), you've lost much of your fuel efficiency advantage for daily driving and your custom tune hasn't been vetted to nearly the degree a factory calibration has over temperature, altitude, thermal shock etc. so there's still risk of throwing a rod depending on how much power you push.

The super charged V8 can make as much or more power all day long on regular pump gas for a full service life over all those conditions. In my opinion if you want more power reliably in a daily than what the FP calibration / Inter Cooler combo provides your going to need to go V8. We've seen blown engines now from EVERY tuner except maybe Lund and Livernois, but neither can be kept on the car if you e-check, so you gotta switch tunes back and fourth.

For a daily driver / auto cross / track car, the EB does pretty darn good though for what it is at it's price point once it's calibrated and with upgrade cooling. Just 7 years ago Ford's V8 was making 325HP / 350FT-LBs at 175lbs heavier....now were bettering that from a 4 cylinder (335HP/390Ft-Lbs) on pump gas at 175 lbs less weight at the cost of your average mid range Ford Fusion....plus, there's a plethora of V8's available for the picking when the time comes for the 2.3T to go to the scrap yard of old age and high mileage.

It was never my intention to turn the 2.3T into a V8, but it was my intention to match or slightly better higher dollar turbo 4's like the WRX STi and NA V6's in the 370Z which we can do with just the calibration, inter cooler and maybe gearing in some cases at nearly 7k~10k less, without loosing the warranty. The FP calibration is the EB's saving grace because Ford de-tuned the engine so much in it's factory form. I realize they intended it to be a replacement for the V6, which it runs the same 1/4 mile but with much better fuel economy, they achieved that aspect, but they made it NOT fun which is the whole point of buying a mustang, at least for me. Yah it's an awesome looking car, but to be fun it needs to at least perform decently too.

That's the whole point of this thread. As soon as the FP Calibration came out I jumped right on it. It's about balancing power, efficiency and reliability without loosing warranty coverage so you can have a reasonably reliable car you can enjoy beating on day and in and day out without worry. There are Mazda MX-5's out there with over 500k miles that were track cars from day one....now that's a lot of fun! These aren't race cars, but getting the most out of them without compromising durability makes sense and adds to the fun factor.

I love driving this car every day, yah it's already got a bunch of little paint chips and small scratches, but I enjoy actually driving my car instead of thinking about how much fun it would be to drive while it sits in my garage. And it has potential to be a fire breathing V8 weekend toy in the future instead of going into a junk yard. What's not to like?
 
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If anything happens after warranty, that makes the most sense as you are going to pay roughly the same cost New 2.3 vs used 5.0. And most of all the 5.0's that MWM gets are 30k or less. (Honestly I don't think I could ever fully trust a used takeout 2.3L)
I wonder if any 5.2's have crossed midwaymustang....hummm...the wheels are turning :D
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