Finally broken in. Red line question

[DickR]

Why would anyone with any sense rev a cold engine to high revs?

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[Norm Peterson]

Why would anyone with any sense rev a cold engine to high revs?

Key qualifier right there . . .


Norm

 

[Ghost50]

I’ve banged mine off the limiter a few times and while I cringe when I do it I know it’s not going to kill the car.

It is not my daily driver but I do put miles on it. More than I anticipated when I bought it.

I drive it hard. I have a warranty and if something breaks it’ll get fixed. When the warranty runs out and something breaks I take the opportunity then to upgrade the broken part(s) if it is one where aftermarket parts make sense.

I guess my mindset is I’ve owned enough Mustangs to know that things will break over time and it’s part of the game.

 

[Allentown]

Key qualifier right there . . .


Norm

It could happen though. Come out on a cool day on your way to work or maybe after lunch, pull out onto the road, realize there is a car bearing down on you out of no where (perhaps he wasn't there when you started pulling out but changed lanes or something) You hit the throttle to make sure he didnt have to hit is brakes. Smile as you realize he never even had to touch the brakes.........cringe when you realize you just got into it real hard while it was still cold..... shat happens.

 

[BmacIL]

Why would anyone with any sense rev a cold engine to high revs?

Have you met....people?

 

[Norm Peterson]

It could happen though. Come out on a cool day on your way to work or maybe after lunch, pull out onto the road, realize there is a car bearing down on you out of no where (perhaps he wasn't there when you started pulling out but changed lanes or something) You hit the throttle to make sure he didnt have to hit is brakes. Smile as you realize he never even had to touch the brakes.........cringe when you realize you just got into it real hard while it was still cold..... shat happens.

I realize that situations can and probably will crop up from time to time.

But they can be minimized if you take the pressure off yourself to jump into a stream of traffic even when almost none of it is in the far-right lane. Near me, there's a poster-boy intersection for this, where left-lane traffic is very apt to move over just as it reaches a semi-busy side street. If you're on the side street, patience is by far the better choice. Especially if you're not driving an automatic transmission car, where the time and speed lost during the 1-2 upshift works very much to your disadvantage.


Norm

 

[Zelek]

I thought it was just common sense to let things warm up, but then again these are human beings so any nonsense is possible.

 

[Allentown]

I thought it was just common sense to let things warm up, but then again these are human beings so any nonsense is possible.

Then these are every where:

Technical Advisor Shanna Simmons said it is a myth that engines need to idle on a cold winter day.

"While it does take longer for motor oil to pump in extreme cold temperatures, we are talking milliseconds, not minutes," she said. "Your engine will warm up the oil much faster when driving at full speed — not to mention idling wastes gas."

The Environmental Protection Agency lines up with those who say warming up your car is not only not helpful but is wasteful.

Both the EPA and Energy.gov say a car should not idle for more than 30 seconds at a time. Not only is it more environmentally friendly, but also cost-effective. Idling for 30 seconds actually uses more fuel than restarting the car

In major cities, officials restrict how long the average driver can idle his/her car. Minneapolis, for example, limits the length of idling to three minutes, barring some exceptions (when it is below zero degrees Fahrenheit or higher than 90, idling is permitted up to 15 minutes an hour).

Chicago, New York, Philadelphia and Boston have similar regulations. Those caught idling for too long can face a fine.

All experts agree that drivers should take it easy in the first few minutes of driving. Henmueller suggested driving no more than 45 miles per hour for the first five to 10 minutes.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...ther-experts-explain-engine-oil-life/55447779

I am not saying i agree, I am saying the average reader now days is being hit with this non sense 5 or 6 times a year just in their daily review of the headlines.

It is also hard to abide by BOTH the rule of "only 3 minutes" and "keep it under 45 for 10 minutes" if you literally pull out of your drive way and almost RIGHT onto a 70mph freeway. The two rules are just not possible. You can do one or the other...NOT both.

There is also probably significant wear difference between people like me who may rev the engine at cars and coffee right after starting it up once or twice a year or who may have to pull out into traffic while the car is still cold a few times a year and the guy who literally does both nearly every single time he drives...

And it is on "car" sites, "tire" sites etc.

Don’t let your car idle for long periods of time to warm it up.

If you’ve gotten into the habit of starting your car 10 or more minutes before you need to leave, it’s time to change that habit. Many of us have been taught that allowing the engine to idle will “warm it up.” While true, most manufacturers say it’s actually no longer necessary. Instead, start your engine, wait 30 seconds, and then gently drive away to warm the engine gradually without wasting fuel.

https://blog.firestonecompleteautocare.com/driving/get-better-fuel-efficiency-cold-weather/

Again, if someones house dumps right into a 55 to 80 mph zone nearly (mine does) and you think "ok i wont let it warm up long" where do you end up? 90 seconds of running and you are merging into highway traffic at high speeds....

I don't follow any of the advice for that reason but you can see how this can be a huge problem for those who's houses are right off high speed areas.

I know in some places there are folks whos drive ways literally pull out into a 55 mph zone..of which the entire flow of traffic is going 75 in the morning rush hour...

 

[NoVaGT]

Technical Advisor Shanna Simmons said it is a myth that engines need to idle on a cold winter day.

"While it does take longer for motor oil to pump in extreme cold temperatures, we are talking milliseconds, not minutes," she said. "Your engine will warm up the oil much faster when driving at full speed — not to mention idling wastes gas."

The Environmental Protection Agency lines up with those who say warming up your car is not only not helpful but is wasteful.

Both the EPA and Energy.gov say a car should not idle for more than 30 seconds at a time. Not only is it more environmentally friendly, but also cost-effective. Idling for 30 seconds actually uses more fuel than restarting the car

In major cities, officials restrict how long the average driver can idle his/her car. Minneapolis, for example, limits the length of idling to three minutes, barring some exceptions (when it is below zero degrees Fahrenheit or higher than 90, idling is permitted up to 15 minutes an hour).

Chicago, New York, Philadelphia and Boston have similar regulations. Those caught idling for too long can face a fine.

All experts agree that drivers should take it easy in the first few minutes of driving. Henmueller suggested driving no more than 45 miles per hour for the first five to 10 minutes.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...ther-experts-explain-engine-oil-life/55447779



What a steaming pile of horse shit being fed to the multitudes. Complete bullshit.

 

[BmacIL]

Then these are every where:

Technical Advisor Shanna Simmons said it is a myth that engines need to idle on a cold winter day.

"While it does take longer for motor oil to pump in extreme cold temperatures, we are talking milliseconds, not minutes," she said. "Your engine will warm up the oil much faster when driving at full speed — not to mention idling wastes gas."

The Environmental Protection Agency lines up with those who say warming up your car is not only not helpful but is wasteful.

Both the EPA and Energy.gov say a car should not idle for more than 30 seconds at a time. Not only is it more environmentally friendly, but also cost-effective. Idling for 30 seconds actually uses more fuel than restarting the car

In major cities, officials restrict how long the average driver can idle his/her car. Minneapolis, for example, limits the length of idling to three minutes, barring some exceptions (when it is below zero degrees Fahrenheit or higher than 90, idling is permitted up to 15 minutes an hour).

Chicago, New York, Philadelphia and Boston have similar regulations. Those caught idling for too long can face a fine.

All experts agree that drivers should take it easy in the first few minutes of driving. Henmueller suggested driving no more than 45 miles per hour for the first five to 10 minutes.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...ther-experts-explain-engine-oil-life/55447779

I am not saying i agree, I am saying the average reader now days is being hit with this non sense 5 or 6 times a year just in their daily review of the headlines.

It is also hard to abide by BOTH the rule of "only 3 minutes" and "keep it under 45 for 10 minutes" if you literally pull out of your drive way and almost RIGHT onto a 70mph freeway. The two rules are just not possible. You can do one or the other...NOT both.

There is also probably significant wear difference between people like me who may rev the engine at cars and coffee right after starting it up once or twice a year or who may have to pull out into traffic while the car is still cold a few times a year and the guy who literally does both nearly every single time he drives...

And it is on "car" sites, "tire" sites etc.

Don’t let your car idle for long periods of time to warm it up.

If you’ve gotten into the habit of starting your car 10 or more minutes before you need to leave, it’s time to change that habit. Many of us have been taught that allowing the engine to idle will “warm it up.” While true, most manufacturers say it’s actually no longer necessary. Instead, start your engine, wait 30 seconds, and then gently drive away to warm the engine gradually without wasting fuel.

https://blog.firestonecompleteautocare.com/driving/get-better-fuel-efficiency-cold-weather/

Again, if someones house dumps right into a 55 to 80 mph zone nearly (mine does) and you think "ok i wont let it warm up long" where do you end up? 90 seconds of running and you are merging into highway traffic at high speeds....

I don't follow any of the advice for that reason but you can see how this can be a huge problem for those who's houses are right off high speed areas.

I know in some places there are folks whos drive ways literally pull out into a 55 mph zone..of which the entire flow of traffic is going 75 in the morning rush hour...

That is missing the point. No, you don't need to let it idle for 10 minutes. What you should do, is let the engine drop from the initial higher idle speed (about 1250 rpm on the Mustang) down to the first 'warm' idle speed (about 1000 rpm) and then drive off. Accelerate moderately, and generally keep revs below 3000-3500 rpm until at operating temp. After the coolant is up at >190 and oil is well into the 'green'...rev away. 30 seconds isn't necessarily enough time at all temperatures and with all engines. It's not a bad guideline, and is WAY better than what I see many people do. I can't tell you how many folks I've seen start up the car and IMMEDIATELY throw into R or D. Poor engines.

 

[Allentown]

Then you have someone i DO actually respect:



Points: For those who won't watch
1) Idling doesn't warm your car fast enough...the longer your car stays cold the more ware... conclusion, long idles work against you as car runs colder longer.
2) When cold fuel injections will inject extra fuel in order to make sure there is enough vapor. Fuel is a solvent which then dilutes the oil on the cylinder wall, increasing wear. The longer your engine is cold..the more ware. Idling for long periods makes this worse.
3) The extra fuel can pass the pistons and mix with the oil, resulting in overall thinner oil with less film strength so then your oil is compromised, and oxidzation of oil is accelerated

The advice is that the best way to heat of a car is not long idling but light driving...but here is the rub once again. There are many people who don't have the option to "drive light". If you have to pull out into heavy traffic where "light" is not an option (rush hour every day coming and going in big cities or rurual areas where the closest road is a wide open speed highway"....you are screwed. Esentially unless you are going to find a culdesac and drive in a circle for 10 minutes before pulling out (and that isn't even available to everyone) then you are in a no win situation with these two opposing forces. I guess this is one area where the "thinner" oils that OEMs now run to increase fuel economy may help significantly

 

[Allentown]

That is missing the point. No, you don't need to let it idle for 10 minutes. What you should do, is let the engine drop from the initial higher idle speed (about 1250 rpm on the Mustang) down to the first 'warm' idle speed (about 1000 rpm) and then drive off. Accelerate moderately, and generally keep revs below 3000-3500 rpm until at operating temp. After the coolant is up at >190 and oil is well into the 'green'...rev away. 30 seconds isn't necessarily enough time at all temperatures and with all engines. It's not a bad guideline, and is WAY better than what I see many people do. I can't tell you how many folks I've seen start up the car and IMMEDIATELY throw into R or D. Poor engines.

Auto start. Even in the summer when it is hot i hit that button from all the way across the parking lot (some times as much as 100yards away). It takes me a minute or two to get there. People area always like "why do you do that".

Me: eye roll

 

[Norm Peterson]

Then these are every where:

Technical Advisor Shanna Simmons said it is a myth that engines need to idle on a cold winter day.

"While it does take longer for motor oil to pump in extreme cold temperatures, we are talking milliseconds, not minutes," she said. "Your engine will warm up the oil much faster when driving at full speed — not to mention idling wastes gas."

The Environmental Protection Agency lines up with those who say warming up your car is not only not helpful but is wasteful.

Nah, the EPA could not possibly have their own agenda here . . .

Both the EPA and Energy.gov say a car should not idle for more than 30 seconds at a time. Not only is it more environmentally friendly, but also cost-effective. Idling for 30 seconds actually uses more fuel than restarting the car

RESTARTING, not initial starting. This is for after you've already driven somewhere and the engine/oil/coolant is presumably no longer stone-cold. Not the same thing.

It is also hard to abide by BOTH the rule of "only 3 minutes" and "keep it under 45 for 10 minutes" if you literally pull out of your drive way and almost RIGHT onto a 70mph freeway. The two rules are just not possible. You can do one or the other...NOT both.

Why do you 'have to' jump right onto that freeway? Can't you take a longer way around? Or at least head away from it and make a U-turn so you run up at least a few tenths of a mile at reduced speed. I can't remember when I didn't do one or the other of those, given that I'm only about a mile and a half from a major East-coast Interstate highway.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I guess this is one area where the "thinner" oils that OEMs now run to increase fuel economy may help significantly

Also why you might choose to run the thinner of two viscosity choices in the winter, especially if you intentionally run something slightly 'heavier' for track and autocross purposes.


Norm

 

[Zooks527]

I don't follow any of the advice for that reason but you can see how this can be a huge problem for those who's houses are right off high speed areas.

I know in some places there are folks whos drive ways literally pull out into a 55 mph zone..of which the entire flow of traffic is going 75 in the morning rush hour...

Not quite that bad for mine, but close: out of my driveway, 1.25 miles to the end of the street at ~35 mph, left turn, 1/4 mile to the downhill ramp, and turn right onto the interstate, average speed ~75 mph in right hand lane. Same thing at the office: left turn out of the lot, 1.75 miles down the street at ~45 mph, right turn onto an uphill ramp for the same interstate going the other way.

My goal is to stay under 3000 rpm until my oil is over 160F. Workable in the mornings due to a long (1/2 mile) merging section. Not always possible in the evenings, as at least once a week I'll end up behind someone doing 25 mph right up to the merge point or, worse, every few months when there will be someone who stops dead at the top of the ramp.

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