Electromechanical conversion

[luca1290]

At some point our modern cars will be considered absolutely archaic. At some point I'm sure human driven cars will be banned. Hell your likely to only find an S650 in a museum as the last V8 made...
I won't live to see it but I have no doubt it's coming.

Nope. That's a common misconception but the speed of progress has slowed dramatically during the last 20 years, and it's still slowing.
The scale of "how much the progress slowed" is not linear but the current speed of progress is a few orders of magnitude slower. That's a big deal.

People and politicians are used to exponential progress so the former can have unreasonable expectations (people in the 70's were expecting flying car's in the 2000's) so they can buy the latest gimmick and the latter can do their thing and still get a vote.

Corporations can't sell you the latest gimmick that can't satisfy your hyper-inflated expectations based on the century past, so they have to resort to tricks like "autopilot" or "curved screens" to keep you distracted from the basic fact that cars now cost more and offer less than they used to.

.... and not, AI is not going to "speed up human evolution" (it's another smoke and mirror screen), unless we have a new scientific breakthrough in physics like what happened in the second half of the 1800's we are stuck with what we have.

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[K4fxd]

The only way I see this working is with a stand alone engine computer. The factory one needs the input from all the other sensors and modules.

If you are going to lock out the cams I can see installing a point dizzy on one of the cams, fabing a carb intake manifold would be fun.

I'm with you on the electronic dashes and touch screens. They have no place in a car, all they are is a distraction and lead to accidents.

 

[Paddles]

While I love my 2020 GT 6MT, I've come up with a new project to correct its various design flaws: A conversion to electromechanical instrumentation & switchgear.

I'm not really looking for more power or better handling, partly because I'm not driver enough to exploit the huge amount of both Ford designed into the car and partly because it's a daily, not a track slut. But I'm about at my wit's end with the vehicle's generally electronic character - the touchscreen...and the backup sensors...and the rearview camera...and the 1/4" window drop...and all the other supposed progress that's made me seriously consider an '88 Trans Am for my next car.

Whenever I get in and start up, the first things I do are turn off the backup beeper and the traction control because of course they reset when you shut the vehicle off. I'm sick of having to do this every time I want to go somewhere. It's not my fault some halfwit backed over his kid. I always walk around the car before I leave and I look around when reversing. I don't need a backup camera. The Safetyism, and the implication that I'm some kind of halfwit, is off-putting to say the least.

So my plan is to replace the instrument cluster and centerstack with fabricated panels full of gauges & switches from the Summit Racing catalog - or wherever -and convert the car's functions (other than engine control) from electronic to electromechanical, each on its own independent circuit.

I don't want 50 different options for each control, I'd much rather have 50 different controls that each do one thing. I don't want to "customize my driving experience." IDGAF about infotainment or fancy animation. What do I need streaming audio for? I got off the Progress Train at MP3 Avenue. I don't want the car binging & bonging at me about Low Washer Fluid or an open hood. I know the hood's open - who do you think opened it? It's what you do when you change oil!

The touchscreen lags in both very hot and very cold weather. WHEN it eventually breaks, it'll do so without warning and be impossible to repair. Which, I know, is the style of the time.

Which means I'm gonna have to build a switch panel for the HVAC, modify the window trim & lock out the window-drop feature, wire each gauge on its own sensor, isolate the ignition interlock in favor of an Outside Context Problem and so forth. This will no doubt require bypassing the body control modules, but since this car's a keeper and I'm never selling it, resale value is a non-concern. Good Lord, there's no reason a power window should be complex!

This is inline with my general future-proofing of the car, such as my other long-term project to replace all the plastic parts in the engine bay with proper metal ones. I swear, this age of plastic and electronics we live in is wearing thin enough to see through.

Anyway, now I have a reason to install those arming-cover switches I've had my eye on. And proper mechanical door locks.

Anything else I should consider for this conversion?

If you manage to make this happen I would love to see it. You can accomplish some of what you want with Forscan, it should allow you to permanently disable some of those warnings. Also, you should consider working for Ford haha.

 

[engineermike]

The elephant in the room is that almost all of the stock vehicles system uses serial communication, like a digital network if you will. As such, something like the gauge panel might receive all its data over a single wire or very few wires communicating enough data to run dozens of gauges. Then for something like the fuel pump control, its a PWM signal sent to a module, so not good way to hardwire that either. The list goes on for days and basically every single function is going to be a science project.

 

[ORRadtech]

The elephant in the room is that almost all of the stock vehicles system uses serial communication, like a digital network if you will. As such, something like the gauge panel might receive all its data over a single wire or very few wires communicating enough data to run dozens of gauges. Then for something like the fuel pump control, its a PWM signal sent to a module, so not good way to hardwire that either. The list goes on for days and basically every single function is going to be a science project.

Exactly right and what I tried to say in post #5. A single pair of wires can control/provide information for a number of components. Tenths of a volt matter. To do what he wants isn't as simple as replacing one multi function switch with several. It's going to mean finding out what the controlling module expects to see and devising a way to trick into thinking it sees that. Which is further complicated by the module often needing to see several different inputs correctly to proceed.
Electronically and electrically are to very different animals.

 

[K4fxd]

It's going to mean finding out what the controlling module expects to see and devising a way to trick into thinking it sees that.

Easiest way is to get rid of the modules altogether and devise a way to control items you want with old time type switches. Basically rip out the stock interior and start over with hand fabricated parts. Like a race car.

Like I said earlier, stand alone engine computer or machine a place for a dizzy. Would also need to fab an intake manifold for a carb. If auto trans would need a stand alone controller or switch to a c6, turbo 400 ect..

Not for the faint of heart.

 

[ORRadtech]

Easiest way is to get rid of the modules altogether and devise a way to control items you want with old time type switches. Basically rip out the stock interior and start over with hand fabricated parts. Like a race car.

Like I said earlier, stand alone engine computer or machine a place for a dizzy. Would also need to fab an intake manifold for a carb. If auto trans would need a stand alone controller or switch to a c6, turbo 400 ect..

Not for the faint of heart.

And after all that you'd be left with a car with very little of the characteristics and less functionality than it started with.
Better to buy the TransAn or Coyote swap an early '70's Mustang.

 

[Qcman17]

OP buy a S650 way less intrusive tech…..

 

[mavisky]

Someone has obviously not worked with modern canbus systems.

Good luck to you sir. Please post videos. Awaiting the first video where your engine won't start because you altered the resistance of the left rear turn signal beyond it's current parameters.

Your first step is honestly to gut and remove all electronics and then add back in as needed. Blending the two systems will be an absolute nightmare.

 

[mavisky]

Why do you even bother turning off traction control if you are “not driver enough to exploit the huge amount of [power] Ford designed into the car”?

Because he's watched 3 seasons of Top Gear and the "car's electronic nannies are holding him back". Nevermind the fact that I've literally won events with full stability control engaged in my GT350 when I forgot to disable it before my run.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Just retro it back to the 70’s and put a Holley on it with a lumpy cam… done. <sarcasm>

but like I and others have stated - although it seems simple, it’s not. Your best bet as previously mentioned is to visit the Factory 5 forums. Those guys have been putting modular Ford/Dodge/Chevy engines and stand alone control packs into those kit cars for years now. They’re pros at it and can tell you what will and won’t work for your project.

If the car is currently your daily, don’t expect it to be after you start chopping harnesses…. It’s not a weak turnover type of modification either,; it’s far from the 90’s early 00’s era of vehicles and “swaps” or “deletions” that could be accomplished in a day or weekend.

 

[CVN 80]

Easiest way is to get rid of the modules altogether and devise a way to control items you want with old time type switches. Basically rip out the stock interior and start over with hand fabricated parts. Like a race car.

Like I said earlier, stand alone engine computer or machine a place for a dizzy. Would also need to fab an intake manifold for a carb. If auto trans would need a stand alone controller or switch to a c6, turbo 400 ect..

Not for the faint of heart.

That's the idea. Run the engine on the stock ECU, but put everything else in the car on its own independent electrical circuit. Windows, backup lights, door locks, etc. Run each gauge on its own sensor.

And it's an MT82, so no need to deal with a slushbox computer.

 

[K4fxd]

I think the crate engine computer will run the engine without all the other computers. The stock one needs them or a very good programmer to make it work without.

If you do go down this road document it here. It would make for an interesting read.

 

[Pistol_91]

Sell car. Buy early 2000s or later car.

 

[luca1290]

That's the idea. Run the engine on the stock ECU, but put everything else in the car on its own independent electrical circuit. Windows, backup lights, door locks, etc. Run each gauge on its own sensor.

And it's an MT82, so no need to deal with a slushbox computer.

Sure about it?
The ECU will not unlock if it does not have greenlight from the BCM which reads the immobilizer which in turn needs an antenna in the center console.
And good luck comparing the 10R80 to a slushbox. From the high tower of your MT-82.

So, after you managed to kill the car, mangle all the harnesses, torn the interior apart, which MOT is going to attest that your car without ABS, airbags, stability controls, windows (they will shatter the third time you close a door after you mangled the BCM and driver door module)... is safe?
How are you going to drive around?

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