Electric for everyone - the impossible dream

[KingKona]

Mandates are an objective. They usually change to reflect reality. RELAX!

You have no idea what the word "mandate" means, and no idea what harm these ridiculous, retarded, ignorant mandates are going to cause.

It's odd you're just o.k. with all of that.

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[Qcman17]

Aside from the fact EV's don't interest me to own what makes me shy away from them is what I see as much more rapid technical progression that is likely to occur with battery technology. Imagine buying an EV with a 250 mile range only to have a new one come out with Solid State battery tech that will have a 1000 mile range and charge in under 10 minutes? I don't think that is a stretch nor far off. That 250 mile range car is now worthless pretty quick.

At least ICE improvements are incremental so that a 7 year old GT isn't worthless compared to a 2 year old one. Its worth less but not stupidly so........ A current EV will be a boat anchor pretty quickly as tech progresses.

 

[RagmopInKona]

As for this article, why hasn't a Blue or Greenie posted these fact? B/c they do not want to solve these problems, they only wish to get their way.

Everyone needs both sides of the conversation to make a personal decision.

Questions I would like to be answered by a pro electric are:

1. electric/ tree huggers people are not pushing for everyone to stop buying SUVs/Trucks and go for a less drag, lighter car. This would also reduce emissions today. Why are they still buying them and why haven't they attacked those vehicles? Could you imagine if today's engineering was in cars of the 80's and 90's? I think oil companies would have something to say about that.

2. Instead of pushing for Congestion pricing, reduce the price of a train ticket from the suburbs to that of a city subway. So cheap that it would be financially stupid to drive in. Wouldn't this help those lesser income groups? How's about doing away with overtime in gov't jobs and instead higher enough people to cover the hours required. Paying someone a regular wage is far cheaper than paying time and a half. Might reduce the need for congestion pricing.

3. You promote urbanization so everyone walks? What about the impact of all that concrete you will be pouring? Last I heard, green grass and trees help the environment. How will you get to the great outdoors? Will we need trains to take you to mountain hiking/biking trails and all the great outdoor spots? If there are fewer cars, won't the price to operate one to get to your destination go up, not down making the outdoors for the rich only (sounds like Robert Moses).

4. What do you do if you get everyone to stay put? How will they get to work and spend money in other places? I would expect fewer to travel and what will that do to places that live for tourism.

5. Why aren't they pushing for work from home? 39% worked from home over the pandemic and the environment did show a change. Give companies an incentive to allow more work form home except that would hurt the urban economy and negatively impact the desire for urbanization and a less driving culture?

Finally, even with Long Island traffic, I love to drive. Going anywhere is a pleasure. Why would I want to ride in dirty disgusting public transportation where a portion of the population would rather destroy than improve or maintain it. If we had trains and buses like those in Europe, ok not all are great, then that might help. With personal transportation, I get to go when I wish and in a degree of safety. It will take a lot to increase the availability of public transportation. Even now, NYC has you wait 15-20 mins between rides. Also, I do not see the number of cops and infrastructure to suggest that will ever get to a point where I would feel safe at all hours of the day.

When a see a democrat that lives in the suburbs driving a gas guzzler with a sticker or lawn poster asking to save the planet, all I can think is hypocrite. If they are not willing to live by example, why should it fall on the rest of us?

The biggest problem with personal vehicle pollution isn't the vehicles themselves. It is the heavy walking speed traffic in many areas from 6am to 10am then 330 pm till 6 or 7 pm.
With most of that traffic office pencil pushers that can do there jobs from a computer ANYWHERE.
After covid many company's went back to slowly requiring the employees to go back to working in the offices again.
If nothing else covid proved that 60% of the work force can do their jobs from ANYWHERE and if we really want to reduce emissions ,pollution and use of fuel THIS IS THE WAY. Staggering one day a week at office and the rest at home or wherever.
But this never happen as it allow moms to raise their children instead of shipping them off to day care every day since birth and managers would not get to have power trips daily in the cubical hive.

 

[Fly2High]

Add in the fact that damage or end of life batteries will cost nearly as much as a new replacement car, there will be no value in a used EV and those who can only afford a used car will not have a car they can afford from the slim pickings.

 

[tdstuart]

The biggest problem I see with EVs is actually making them have "clean" energy.

Most places just use coal for their power grids and batteries are very harmful for the environment to make. I think it takes something like 8+ years for a modern Tesla to offset the environmental impact of the battery, assuming you live in a place that has a lot of energy from wind/solar/dams.

All other problems are slowly getting solved. The cars drive great, they are charging faster, and they are getting better range. I think they can get to a point soon where it is not a big inconvenience on road trips. They already work great as commuter cars especially if you don't need to drive more than 200-300 miles in a day.

Another issue is battery recycling and degradation. The batteries do degrade and it is another big environmental impact when you replace the battery.

Its funny hearing car guys say that electric cars have no soul and they will never own one. Does a Toyota camry have a soul lmao. I would much rather drive a model 3 performance than a camry. And a low 9 second sedan sounds fun af...

 

[shogun32]

The mandates are a good way to bankrupt the auto industry.

kinda the point isn't it?

 

[Cory S]

Its funny hearing car guys say that electric cars have no soul and they will never own one. Does a Toyota camry have a soul lmao. I would much rather drive a model 3 performance than a camry. And a low 9 second sedan sounds fun af...

Well, you can almost buy two Camrys for the price of one Model 3 Performance. The Camrys will last 20+ years no problem as well. They don’t require a $3500 home electrical upgrade to charge them in any reasonable amount of time either. I’d almost guarantee a Camry is just as clean as a Model 3 when you look at the big picture outside of just the car itself.

 

[KingKona]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-24/blood-cobalt/13769990

 

[K4fxd]

Solid State battery tech that will have a 1000 mile range and charge in under 10 minutes?

We are looking at 3 to 400 Kwh to go 1000 miles. 300 for small car 400 for normal SUV. So counting losses that battery needs to hold 325 to 450 Kwh of energy. To replace that energy in 10 minuets will require around 2500 Kw's of charging current. It's not going to happen

 

[tdstuart]

Well, you can almost buy two Camrys for the price of one Model 3 Performance. The Camrys will last 20+ years no problem as well. They don’t require a $3500 home electrical upgrade to charge them in any reasonable amount of time either. I’d almost guarantee a Camry is just as clean as a Model 3 when you look at the big picture outside of just the car itself.

Top trim camry is ~$36k. Model 3 performance with incentives is about $40k.

But yes the tesla has to drive for many years while living in a place that has clean electricity to get to be better than a gas car.

You are arguing with things I agree with haha. My point is car guys will hate on electric cars then own a boring daily car. They hate electric cars because "electric is boring".

 

[KingKona]

All other problems are slowly getting solved.

No, they're not. And they never will be.

EVs are a dead-end.

 

[KingKona]

Top trim camry is ~$36k. Model 3 performance with incentives is about $40k.

Incentives? Where do those come from? Who pays for them?

 

[K4fxd]

They hate electric cars because "electric is boring".

I think very few HATE EV's What we hate is being forced to buy one. We hate the mandates.

My neighbor had a Tesla, I forget what model, it was fun from a dig. Then it went into BBQ mode and burned down his house.

 

[tdstuart]

No, they're not. And they never will be.

EVs are a dead-end.

How many electric cars have you driven?

My dad has daily driven a Tesla model 3 and a model Y. I daily drove the same model 3 for a while. He has done a 2k mile road trip in his model 3. Uses the model y as a company vehicle looking to put 35k+ miles a year on it.

Electric cars do just fine driving in the city and suburbs and are charging faster so you don't have to wait as long for them to charge on road trips.

Are they great at hauling? No
Are they super convenient if you make 300+ mile drives often? No

Other than that they do pretty good.

A tesla gets almost 2x the range I get on my mustang although to be fair I run e85 haha.

 

[tdstuart]

Incentives? Where do those come from? Who pays for them?

Most of it is a federal tax credit although depending on where you live I think some states may have additional benefits.

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