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Edelbrock E-Force Troubleshooting Manual

mikengail

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Yeah that's my dilemma. I'm going to want to upgrade my fuel system too, which is just more money, but I'm already in pretty deep so why not.
A friend of mine, Jonathan Blevins, in Oklahoma City, runs a VMP supercharged Gen2 Coyote in an orange/yellow S197 GT500 in the Optima Search for the Ultimate Street Car, GT Class. He can tell you all about road racing a supercharged Coyote. He's been winning that class off and on for quite a few years now.

He tried going N/A one season or part of one season and went right back to the VMP supercharger, afterward. Jonathan drives that car on the street. He takes it to Cars and Coffee events, car shows, dealership promotions and local pony ride cruises with the nearby Mustang Club chapter. The car even has a top-of-the-line sound system.

I've ridden in it with him, but I almost lost one of my kidneys. That car is crazy stiff. I'm a test-n-tune drag racer only, but when I have questions about suspension or brakes, Jonathan is my expert resource...
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mikengail

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OK, at the risk of overposting on this thread and getting ahead of myself, I'm going to try to detail how Stage-1 owners may soon, hopefully, be able to go to a 103mm throttle body at a very reasonable and relatively inexpensive price point. Items required:

1. Soler Performance 103mm Throttle Body.
2. Soler Adapter (2650 supercharger inlet snout to 103mm TB, currently IN DEVELOPMENT).
3. PMAS Silicone Angled Reducer Coupler 90-Degree (Z-Coupling-500403)
4. PMAS 120mm MAF Housing w/7" Air Filter (H-120B1).
5. PMAS Intake Heatshield Kit 15-19 Mustang 5.0 (SA-HEATSHIELD-100).
6. 1/2" to 3/8" Inside Diameter Hose Reducer/Splicer.
7. K&N or Spectre PCV Vent Breather Filter.
8. 2020 GT500 Predator Fuel Injectors (56lbs, I think?).
9. Boost-A-Pump (I'm using the VMP Plug-n-Play type).
10. All necessary hose clamps.

IMPORTANT: I'm working with Mike @ Soler Performance in helping them design and develop an adapter that bolts to the Edelbrock Stage-1 inlet snout and reduces the inside diameter to that of the 103mm Soler Throttle Body. Mike is doing all the work. I just provided measurements, pictures and my own Edelbrock Inlet snout to stock throttle body reducer adapter that comes supplied in our kits. This is NOT a done deal and may not ever be done. I'm just trying to help Mike at Soler to help us all. Fingers crossed. If this doesn't happen, then those who still want to pursue this solution will have to take their Edelbrock Inlet Snout to Stock TB Reducer to a machine shop to make one from scratch. That's what I would end up having to do.

This potential combination will fit in your engine bay but will require eliminating the driver's side PCV Hose and the Brake Aspirator device. After removing the driver's side PCV hose, you merely plug in the PCV Vent Breather/Filter in the same hole. It will clear the supercharger side cover plate. Next, you disconnect all the hoses to the Brake Aspirator and remove it. The only hoses you need are those that connect the fitting on the supercharger snout housing and the power brake vacuum reservoir. This will require the 1/2" to 3/8" ID hose reducer/splicer. Your brakes will still work normally and that side of your engine bay will be less cluttered.

If Soler succeeds in their adapter development, this should make a little more power than the Edelbrock 103mm TB Upgrade Kit at less than half the cost. The major reason for that is that the PMAS MAF Tube is 120mm in diameter compared to the Edelbrock which is "only" 113mm in diameter.

Here are some pics to illustrate a little further:

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Please excuse my cluttered workbench. It's too small and I'm still in the middle of this attempted project. The adapter pictured is the Edelbrock Stage-1 model that came with my original kit. That is what I sent to Mike at Soler for some possible reverse engineering. The blue air filter is a dry type sold by PMAS for only $35. I ordered my MAF Tube w/Air Filter combo opting for the black race filter (F-3120V 120mm Conical Race Filter). If you buy the black race filter separately, it is $50 at PMAS. The oiled version is $71.50.

Hope this helps...
 

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So you ordered the air filter and MAF tube from PMAS not in a kit?

nice! I’m thinking this is a great deal!
 

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So you ordered the air filter and MAF tube from PMAS not in a kit?

nice! I’m thinking this is a great deal!

The way that I stumbled onto this was by a simple Google search. One of the results was Juggernaut Performance. They had the modified PMAS CAI kit for those who already had the Stage-2, but wanted a bigger MAF tube and bigger air filter. I intended to use it with my 87mm Bullitt TB and my ported Ford Performance bolt pattern adapter. I used high-heat double-sided 3M tape and wrapped it around the outside of the 87mm TB opening, until I was certain to have a snug air-tight fit to the larger 90-degree angled silicon coupler of the modified PMAS. I coated the outside of the tape and the inside of the silicone tube with oil so that it wouldn't permanently stick. Alternatively, I could have used the appropriate-sized additional coupler, but I knew that the tape method would produce a guaranteed seal without any sizing guesswork.

At the time that I bought the modified PMAS CAI, Juggernaut only had two left and I got one of them. They said that they were not going to make any more, after the last one sold. About $400 or so. When it arrived and worked, I looked up every PMAS part number so that anyone could put something like this together on their own, a la carte. Once the 87mm tested out well (+28rwhp), I engaged Mike at Soler Performance. He said that he would ensure that his 103mm TB would fit, as they would make a custom adapter at no extra charge. That's what is going on now.

If Mike is successful, Soler could make their own upgrade kit for Current Stage-1 owners. No way they would charge $3500, as Edelbrock currently does, and they could make a killing. I haven't added up the individual prices for every piece, but I know that it will be around half the Edelbrock price. Plus, it would have slightly more RWHP, due to the larger MAF...
 
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illtal

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The way that I stumbled onto this was by a simple Google search. One of the results was Juggernaut Performance. They had the modified PMAS CAI kit for those who already had the Stage-2, but wanted a bigger MAF tube and bigger air filter. I intended to use it with my 87mm Bullitt TB and my ported Ford Performance bolt pattern adapter. I used high-heat double-sided 3M tape and wrapped it around the outside of the 87mm TB opening, until I was certain to have a snug air-tight fit to the larger 90-degree angled silicon coupler of the modified PMAS. I coated the outside of the tape and the inside of the silicone tube with oil so that it wouldn't permanently stick. Alternatively, I could have used the appropriate-sized additional coupler, but I knew that the tape method would produce a guaranteed seal without any sizing guesswork.

At the time that I bought the modified PMAS CAI, Juggernaut only had two left and I got one of them. They said that they were not going to make any more, after the last one sold. About $400 or so. When it arrived and worked, I looked up every PMAS part number so that anyone could put something like this together on their own, a la carte. Once the 87mm tested out well (+28rwhp), I engaged Mike at Soler Performance. He said that he would ensure that his 103mm TB would fit, as they would make a custom adapter at no extra charge. That's what is going on now.

If Mike is successful, Soler could make their own upgrade kit for Current Stage-1 owners. No way they would charge $3500, as Edelbrock currently does, and they could make a killing. I haven't added up the individual prices for every piece, but I know that it will be around half the Edelbrock price. Plus, it would have slightly more RWHP, due to the larger MAF...
Edelbrock is crazy. I watched prices outpace competitors for years. It doesn't make much since to spend that kind of coin for a supercharger kit when you can have turbo for far less.
 

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mikengail

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Agree. If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone twin turbo. Both Hellion and Armageddon are headquartered here in Albuquerque.
 

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I wasn't really shopping for a supercharger but the Edelbrock was 45% off on Black Friday 2 years ago so it was a deal for me. The Whipple option I was looking at was in the 9-10k range. What's a turbo set up worth these days?
 

mikengail

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I wasn't really shopping for a supercharger but the Edelbrock was 45% off on Black Friday 2 years ago so it was a deal for me. The Whipple option I was looking at was in the 9-10k range. What's a turbo set up worth these days?
Less than $10k, installed here in Albuquerque, depending on your installer. Go to Hellion's website and look up their Twin Turbo Street Sleeper kit for your year and model.

I know what you mean by getting the Edelbrock at such a low cost. I got mine when they first came out for a little less than $5k. The vendor had a big discount and Edelbrock had a $500 rebate promotion. I like it though. It's been a fun experience, both driving and wrenching...
 

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The Reliability of the TVS units are far superior than the whipple units.
I got my Kit in 2018 and by the time I started doing upgrades with the TB and the competition box kit, they had already drastically increased prices on those two items. the 8 rib setup was drastically increased as well. So I decided against it and immediately made plans to eventually go turbo. I think the 8 rib pricing went from 11 dollars to 1800 dollars.... while the whipple 10 rib setup that can be adapted to whatever remained around 1100 dollars.

Edelbrock is basically chasing off customers.
 

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Did you ever resolve this issue, or can anyone else confirm this amount of deflection is/is not normal? Looking at the amount of structural ribbing on other units especially the Whipple, the Edelbrock cover looks pretty wimpy.

New member here! Thanks for the add! I have a question on my SC. I had a misfire on cylinder # 8, found out it was the coil pack and replaced it. Ever since this the SC doesn’t sound the same and the lid balloons when I jump on it. I am making 10 lbs of boost and have never seen it ballon like that. Does anyone else’s lid balloon when they jump on it? I have had no luck with EB. The car is running fine and it builds boost but it does seem a bit less powerful in the upper gears and this could just be in my head but not sure. Any feedback would be appreciated.
 

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mikengail

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OK, for those of you who have been following my Stage-1 kit upgrade project, I have some good news. Mike Cabrera at Soler Performance ([email protected]) has been working with me on a way to upgrade our Stage-1 kits to one of their 103mm Throttle Bodies. I sent Mike my Edelbrock Inlet Snout to 80mm TB adapter/spacer that came with our Stage-1 kits for modification. They just shipped the results back to me today with a scheduled arrival by next Wednesday.

Here are some pics of Soler's work:

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I'll get this installed as soon as I can and let you all know the dyno results. Remember, I'm still at a 6-rib Stage-1 pulley system and I'm using a 120mm open element CAI made from parts listed on the PMAS website. The 120mm CAI is larger and less restrictive than the 113mm Edelbrock Stage-2 CAI.

For my 87mm project, my costs were as follows:

$230.95 Ford Performance Mustang Bullitt 87mm Throttle Body.
$109.95 Ford Performance Mustang GT 87mm Throttle Body Adapter.
$50.00 Porting Throttle Body Adapter.
$425.00 Juggernaut Performance Modified PMAS 120mm CAI.
$0.00 Lund Tune Update.

$815.90 Total. I think that Levittown Ford has the TB and Adapter cheaper than what I paid. Not too bad for a hair over 28 rwhp.

As for the Soler Performance 103mm Throttle Body upgrade, I'm out only $495 thus far. No charge for the adapter. Hope this helps for those of you on the fence about spending $5k on an Edelbrock Stage-2 Upgrade Kit...
 

mikengail

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I finally added up the a la carte costs for a PMAS 120mm open element type CAI. The total is $336.88 and that includes shipping and taxes. Actually, I don't think that PMAS even charges taxes. The shipping is UPS Ground. It's obviously significantly cheaper than the $425 that Juggernaut charged me and the $499 that they list on their website now. I guess they're going to continue selling them, after all. When I bought mine, they said that they were going to stop selling them, after the last kit sold and mine was the next to last kit.

So, to upgrade to the Soler 103mm TB and the PMAS 120mm CAI, you would be out a total of $831.88 (495+336.88) plus the costs of a driver's side Valve Cover PCV Breather/Air Filter and a 1/2" to 3/8" brass hose reducer/splicer.

The 1/2" to 3/8" hose reducer/splicer is to directly connect the vacuum brake reservoir to the fitting on the snout of the front of the supercharger. Each fitting has two different hose sizes. The large PMAS 90-degree Silicone Coupler doesn't have fittings for the Brake Aspirator connection and the driver's side PCV hose. Don't worry. Bypassing and eliminating the plastic Brake Aspirator control valve device will not change the way that your brakes perform. Also, you can save a little change by getting the hose clamps locally or on Amazon and cutting out the black clamps that PMAS offers. That's what I would do. Besides, I prefer the stainless steel look of standard hose clamps anyway.

Now, one of the other costs may be a tune update from your tuner. So far, Lund hasn't charged me for updates, yet, even though I have been willing to pay for them. Here are the PMAS part numbers that have to be used for 2015-2023 5.0 Mustangs:

Z-Coupling-500403 Silicone Angled Reducer Coupler 90 Degree ($40.06).

H-120B1 120mm MAF Housing w/7" Filter ($149.00).

Z-Clamp-4000B - 91mm to 114mm Hose Pipe Clamp - Black ($4.76).

Z-Clamp-5000B - 118mm to 140mm Hose Pipe Clamp - Black ($5.99).

SA-Heatshield-100 Intake Heat Shield Kit 15-19 Mustang 5.0 ($114.00).

UPS Ground Shipping ($23.07).

You can note in your online purchase order what type of filter you want, either Oiled, Dry or Race. They give you a choice. The $149 price is still the same. I got the Dry and bought an extra Race filter. You can also just email them or call them, instead. Here are the part numbers and prices for each type:

F2120V 7" Replacement Oiled Air Filter ($71.50).

F120V 7" Replacement Non Oiled Air Filter ($35.00).

F3120V "7 Conical Race Filter ($50.00).

I don't have the costs handy for my PCV Replacement Breather/Air Filter or my brass 1/2" to 3/8" hose reducer/splicer. It wasn't much at all though. PMAS also makes a heat shield for earlier model year 5.0 Mustangs. It's a different part number and costs a little less, I think.

Well, hope this helps some of you Stage-1 guys and gals. Let me know what you all think...
 

Torinate

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Thanks for the breakdown!

My next little project in the spring when the car comes out.

I have to see the vacuum lines though to be sure I know what to do with them. Can’t remember how many lines come off the intake tube now. I’m still using the factory block with the vacuum hoses.
 

Torinate

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Do you have the nitrous pill in the bypass valve tubing still?

You mentioned being able to hear the blower more - still the case?
 

mikengail

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Do you have the nitrous pill in the bypass valve tubing still?

You mentioned being able to hear the blower more - still the case?
I have kept the pill installed. She's still touchy as hell on the street. The Edelbrock nitrous jet is .015. I'm thinking of going down to .010, after I finish the Soler 103 project. And yes, the bigger open element CAI increases your ability to more clearly notice the blower whine.

As for removing the rubber hoses from the air tube, there are only 2 of them. One is the driver's side PCV and the other goes to the plastic Brake Aspirator Control Valve Apparatus. In your Edelbrock Installation Manual, you are already shown how to partially bypass that system. If your air tube doesn't have the two connections like the stock air tube has, then you just delete them like I explained above. The PMAS large 90-degree Silicon Coupler that serves as the air tube to your TB, doesn't have those connection fittings cast into them like the stock air tube does. I suppose those or similar fittings could be made to fit, but it's an easier, quicker and less cluttered solution to bypass both connections as I already explained above.

By the way, there are quite a few other posts on other sub-forums of Mustang6g that explain in more detail about how to eliminate both the PCV hose and the Brake Aspirator. Use the Search function and check them out. That's what I did.

Good luck. This could be a nice little Winter project for you that could push you close to or over 700 rwhp. Regardless of who your tuner is, I would go with a minimum of the 56lb Predator port injectors and a BAP, before attempting the 103. I might end up having to go to ID 1050x port injectors, if my fueling ends up too close to borderline, for my peace of mind...
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