Ecoboost vs Focus St: Pure Fun Factor

[Gman11Gt]

When you look at hot hatches, its hard to compare a EB Mustang to them. It's a totally different driving experience and feel. I will have to say, the new GTI is in a class by itself. It's got the crown as the best hot hatch, but the new Fiesta ST is no slouch as well. What is unique about the 15 GTI is the cabin space/interior functionality and engine refinement along with the fact they managed to get more space out of the cabin AND loose weight. The engine also gained more power and also weights less the previous.

I think the Focus RS announced recently would be a GTI killer, although the Fiesta ST is no slouch. They can crank up with the wick on the RS with the 2.3 EB maybe to 350hp with AWD and a specially designed torque vectoring system...WOW, that should be a beast.

Anyways, the EB Mustang should take down a GTI in performance I believe. I just seen they are leasing new GTI's for around 350/M with nothing down.

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[zen25]

Car and Driver numbers:
2013 V6 Mustang - 5.4 secs to 60 and 1/4 mile 14 secs @104mph
2015 GTI - 5.6 secs to 60 and 1/4 mile 14.2 secs @100mph
2013 Focus ST - 5.7 secs to 60 and 1/4 mile 14.4 secs @99mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...ng-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Gone are the days, hatches used to be slow. Nowadays they are fast as Mustang.
Just a wee bit slower but they do make it up with other advantages.

If they made WRX in hatch it would be a bomb.

2015 WRX - 4.8secs to 60 and 1/4 mile in 13.6 secs @102mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...review-the-wrx-is-confident-and-stable-page-2

Performancewise they can all compete with Mustang I4/V6, even if they cannot beat it they will run close. It is not like they are worlds apart, I think we can still compare them.

Eagerly awiting for EB showdown in the 30K car market.

 

[petraman]

If they made WRX in hatch it would be a bomb

I have good news:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/02/subaru-wrx-hatchback-spy-shots/

With hot hatches, keep in mind that they're still FWD, so even if it has a slower 0-60 time, it still might feel just as fast... The ST makes some crazy wheelspin if you're not careful with the throttle.

 

[Gman11Gt]

Well if Ford follows through on plans to build the Focus RS, it will be a hot hatch with AWD with most likely the 2.3l EB from the Mustang.

 

[Malikona]

We are not including the fact that the new Mustang looks and feels like hot s3x on a plate, while the GTI and Fiesta ST (my next closest competitors for a new car), well, just don't. For my needs - a daily driver with occasional mountain/track fun runs - either of the hatchbacks are probably the smarter option. But when I can get the EB Mustang for the same price (or less, depending), I just can't justify to myself getting a little box of a car, blown though it may be.

 

[ilkhan]

We are not including the fact that the new Mustang looks and feels like hot s3x on a plate, while the GTI and Fiesta ST (my next closest competitors for a new car), well, just don't. For my needs - a daily driver with occasional mountain/track fun runs - either of the hatchbacks are probably the smarter option. But when I can get the EB Mustang for the same price (or less, depending), I just can't justify to myself getting a little box of a car, blown though it may be.

Same kind of situation for me, looking at a FoST or a Mustang EB/GT as a fun daily sole vehicle. I want to do some autocross and maybe a track day. The FoST is the more practical option, but the Mustang is so much better looking, and RWD. Garr.

 

[zen25]

I would put all the 14sec cars 25-30K together.
Focus ST, Mustang V6, GTI, WRX.
WRX is the fastest of the bunch.
New EB should be faster than the above.

Now the 30-37K cars doing 1/4 mile in low 13 secs,
Golf R, WRX STI, Focus RS

40K+
Audi S3 - some have it bettering STI times.
Golf R 400 - Might not come to US but it is a beast should do under 13 secs easily.

I think Focus RS should do 1/4 mile under 14 secs for sure.
Can it does under 13.5secs, it is possible.

Mustang EB will not compete with Focus RS although it shares engine, I think.
RS will be at-least 100lbs lighter, AWD and better suspension, will give it an edge.
But RS will not be cheap I suppose. 35K or so, it could be expensive.

I do not expect Mustang EB to lap better than STI, R or RS. I would be surprised if it beats them in stock. EB is absolute VFM compared to these cars.

Coming to looks I agree with @Malikona, 2015 Mustang looks awesome.
Non car people (esp other gender) will associate the other cars with their cheaper cousins.
FoST with Focus
GTI with Golf
WRX with Impreza

It is like buying an expensive house in a cheap neighborhood.
The hatches do not have a separate identity or the image like the Mustang does.

 

[Gman11Gt]

Don't forget, minus the new GTI, the interior and comfort of the S550 should be a notch above these being compared. The looks of the new Mustang is way better then any hot hatch. (although the Focus ST does look good for what it is).

I can't wait for first drives and comparo's, but remember regardless of magazine times, you really have to drive the cars you are thinking of buying.

 

[Stroked84]

Don't forget, minus the new GTI, the interior and comfort of the S550 should be a notch above these being compared. The looks of the new Mustang is way better then any hot hatch. (although the Focus ST does look good for what it is).

I can't wait for first drives and comparo's, but remember regardless of magazine times, you really have to drive the cars you are thinking of buying.

Both of those points are very debatable. The new S550 interior on the Premium packaged cars looks nicer (in pictures) than the out going 14's, but I wouldn't say it's nicer than any of the interiors compared in here. The lowest on the list, IMO, is the BRZ/FRS and even though their interior is super simple/plain it's very comfortable.

Personally, I hope the pictures I've seen of the unacceptably loose back seat cloth/leather is no indication of how slapped together the interior is. A shoddy interior feel like the 14's had will kill this car for me. The utterly ridiculous non-touchscreen radio from the 80's is already putting me off of the interior. I feel like I'm in a voting booth staring at Obama and Romney all over again. On one hand I hate leather, on the other I want a touchscreen.

I love the exterior styling, but I'm still disappointed by the overhang up front and out back. I hate sports cars with huge asses (the only thing about the 370z I like is the petite rear). As a result you're forced into rolling on 20" (maybe 19") wheels unless you're going for that parade float on caster wheels look.

 

[Gman11Gt]

Both of those points are very debatable. The new S550 interior on the Premium packaged cars looks nicer (in pictures) than the out going 14's, but I wouldn't say it's nicer than any of the interiors compared in here. The lowest on the list, IMO, is the BRZ/FRS and even though their interior is super simple/plain it's very comfortable.

Personally, I hope the pictures I've seen of the unacceptably loose back seat cloth/leather is no indication of how slapped together the interior is. A shoddy interior feel like the 14's had will kill this car for me. The utterly ridiculous non-touchscreen radio from the 80's is already putting me off of the interior. I feel like I'm in a voting booth staring at Obama and Romney all over again. On one hand I hate leather, on the other I want a touchscreen.

I love the exterior styling, but I'm still disappointed by the overhang up front and out back. I hate sports cars with huge asses (the only thing about the 370z I like is the petite rear). As a result you're forced into rolling on 20" (maybe 19") wheels unless you're going for that parade float on caster wheels look.

The interior of the S197's are not the best, but for the price range of what you can get one brand new is about what is expected. You can pick up a 5.0 GT with several options under 30k. Good luck finding anything near that price range with all that performance with a V8.

Yes, a reworked and redesigned interior is exactly what the doctor ordered, along with a better handling all around car vs the live axle and somewhat bouncy ride the S197 has had.

Again, you first need to drive them and see for yourself if it foots the bill for your needs.

As far as overhang and looks, you either have a crumpled up look like the 370z or something in between like the S550. I prefer the looks, to each there own.

 

[Malikona]

Both of those points are very debatable. The new S550 interior on the Premium packaged cars looks nicer (in pictures) than the out going 14's, but I wouldn't say it's nicer than any of the interiors compared in here. The lowest on the list, IMO, is the BRZ/FRS and even though their interior is super simple/plain it's very comfortable.

Personally, I hope the pictures I've seen of the unacceptably loose back seat cloth/leather is no indication of how slapped together the interior is. A shoddy interior feel like the 14's had will kill this car for me. The utterly ridiculous non-touchscreen radio from the 80's is already putting me off of the interior. I feel like I'm in a voting booth staring at Obama and Romney all over again. On one hand I hate leather, on the other I want a touchscreen.

I love the exterior styling, but I'm still disappointed by the overhang up front and out back. I hate sports cars with huge asses (the only thing about the 370z I like is the petite rear). As a result you're forced into rolling on 20" (maybe 19") wheels unless you're going for that parade float on caster wheels look.

So far all of the leather interiors I've seen look really tight, and all of the cloth ones look really loose and awful. But I'm not past believing that Ford could just be trying to motivate people to upgrade to the Premium trim level. I can't imagine another reason why they would let pre-production vehicles out into the public with such terrible upholstery, unless that's just the best they can do (in which case, mission accomplished on getting me to upgrade to the Premium trim!).

Aside from that, I think we've got to wait until we see the car in person and get familiar with it before passing too much judgment on the details. Yes there is a lot of overhang, but I've seen plenty of pics with the 18" wheels and they look great to me. These guys/girls spent 5 years making clay models of this car to get the details right, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt that they got the proportions as best they could while accomplishing all of their other objectives (performance, aerodynamics, handling, build cost/capabilities, etc.).

You can't have everything in a $30K car. And for my money, this is still a way better spent $30K than any of the competition, even if there are still some build quality imperfections. Fact is there are probably 2-10x as many of these being built in any given month than the competition, including the other Ford ST vehicles. This is a bigger, faster assembly line, and there just won't be the same attention to detail, even at the same price point. That said, I believe they will make strong efforts to improve on the 14s from that standpoint.

 

[Stroked84]

You can pick up a 5.0 GT with several options under 30k. Good luck finding anything near that price range with all that performance with a V8.

I prefer the looks, to each there own.

No doubt the Mustang's bang-for-buck is awesome. I've just been disapointed in the past being in a >$40k Mustang and a mid$20k Fusion and the interiors are night and day. I know Ford can make nice interiors on the cheap, I just wish they would step the styling game up a bit on the non-$4000 Premium cars. (Or at least split the damn options up)

So far all of the leather interiors I've seen look really tight, and all of the cloth ones look really loose and awful. But I'm not past believing that Ford could just be trying to motivate people to upgrade to the Premium trim level. I can't imagine another reason why they would let pre-production vehicles out into the public with such terrible upholstery, unless that's just the best they can do (in which case, mission accomplished on getting me to upgrade to the Premium trim!).

Aside from that, I think we've got to wait until we see the car in person and get familiar with it before passing too much judgment on the details. Yes there is a lot of overhang, but I've seen plenty of pics with the 18" wheels and they look great to me. These guys/girls spent 5 years making clay models of this car to get the details right, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt that they got the proportions as best they could while accomplishing all of their other objectives (performance, aerodynamics, handling, build cost/capabilities, etc.).

You can't have everything in a $30K car. And for my money, this is still a way better spent $30K than any of the competition, even if there are still some build quality imperfections. Fact is there are probably 2-10x as many of these being built in any given month than the competition, including the other Ford ST vehicles. This is a bigger, faster assembly line, and there just won't be the same attention to detail, even at the same price point. That said, I believe they will make strong efforts to improve on the 14s from that standpoint.

My fingers are definitely crossed. I'm holding off my next purchase for a chance to sit in and drive a new GT. My money is theirs to lose.

 

[zen25]

Can they make Mustang smaller.

188.3 inches is a bit too long for modern sports cars. I understand you need a wider frontend for accomodating larger V8. But I guess you can package it more efficiently and use space better.

BMW M4 is 182 inches.
370Z is 167.
FRS 167
WRX is 170.
2003 Mustang is 183 inches and weigh 3000 lbs.

Isn't the S550 big, even Ecoboost is 3530lbs with 4cyl engine.
V8 is 3729lbs.

If they can can cut down 6-9 inches or so and make a smaller car. I can see lot of benefits from lower weight, better turning radius, handling, power to weight, increased mpg, etc. I think it can lose 100-150 lbs easily by making it smaller. You do not need lot of hp to move lesser mass.

Mustang should differentiate itself from Challengers and focus on making modern efficient designs. I am tired of retro designs. There needs to be American alternative to Japs, German and Korean sporty cars. Speed, MPG & Price are the most important factors today.

 

[Gman11Gt]

Can they make Mustang smaller.

188.3 inches is a bit too long for modern sports cars. I understand you need a wider frontend for accomodating larger V8. But I guess you can package it more efficiently and use space better.

BMW M4 is 182 inches.
370Z is 167.
FRS 167
WRX is 170.
2003 Mustang is 183 inches and weigh 3000 lbs.

Isn't the S550 big, even Ecoboost is 3530lbs with 4cyl engine.
V8 is 3729lbs.

If they can can cut down 6-9 inches or so and make a smaller car. I can see lot of benefits from lower weight, better turning radius, handling, power to weight, increased mpg, etc. I think it can lose 100-150 lbs easily by making it smaller. You do not need lot of hp to move lesser mass.

Mustang should differentiate itself from Challengers and focus on making modern efficient designs. I am tired of retro designs. There needs to be American alternative to Japs, German and Korean sporty cars. Speed, MPG & Price are the most important factors today.

The Mustang is right inline with other sports cars as far as weight. The M4 is very close, Infinity GS, and even a GTR weights a lot more. It's more of what you can expect with the government mandates and safety features that add weight along with all the modern technical nannies. The new chassis actually lost weight, just like the C7, but after adding features it gained 50lbs on the auto and 87lbs on the manual in Gt form.
If it gets too much smaller it will not fit the bill for what the Mustang was designed for. which is to appeal to a wider audience. The new Mustang now has a more livable back seat, better styling, and better soft touch materials inside the cabin. As far as Retro, I love the 05-09, but it's the perfect time for meshing modern with subtle Mustang cues. Without them, it looses a little edge to it that has always had. Loud, a little rough around the edges, but now a better performer is exactly the right mix that Ford has nailed.

If you need a more nimble and much smaller ride then you answered your own questions, just get a Focus ST or Fiesta ST, or go GTI if you like hot hatches. AWD you got the WRX or wait for the Focus RS. They all are really fun cars.

 

[Stroked84]

Well it's certainly lighter and smaller than the Camaro and Challenger, lol. I'm not as disappointed with the weight as I am the overall size. I remember reading how the new body was going to be smaller. I wonder how "small" the new Camaro will be. 189" and 3950lbs? lol

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