EB vs mazda speed3 0-60 times

[petraman]

Looking at your chart, 5.2 seems like a statistical anomaly to me...

Oh, and MS3 vs the ST is a driver's race at relatively sane speeds. The MS3 has more torque steer and wheel spin than the ST, but has more power so it'll eventually catch up. Like the ST, the MS3 also has a smaller turbo which falls flat on its face after ~6000rpm.

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[Voodoo1796]

The turbo is a garrett(honeywell) and will not be a k03. I think its going to be some variant of a gt22. Not 100% sure.

This information pleases me...

 

[Voodoo1796]

Looking at your chart, 5.2 seems like a statistical anomaly to me...

It can be done with someone who knows what they are doing, and even then. There was one video a while back of a Speed3 with an intake, midpipe, and slicks pulling away from a Viper on a 1/4 track. Key words being "one video".

 

[Stroked84]

I'll never admit to this in court but my actual first car was a 1990 Eclipse GST 5MT (FWD turbo). Even that little motor with a turbo back exhaust and an intake made the wheel hop too much to bear. I sold it 4 months later and went with an AWD 91 Talon. I'll never own a FWD car again.

 

[scottpe]

I'll never admit to this in court but my actual first car was a 1990 Eclipse GST 5MT (FWD turbo). Even that little motor with a turbo back exhaust and an intake made the wheel hop too much to bear. I sold it 4 months later and went with an AWD 91 Talon. I'll never own a FWD car again.

I had a 1991 GST. Fun little car, especially for its day, but the torque steer was indeed pretty bad. Right or wrong, it pretty much ruined my perception of FWD sports cars from then on.

 

[w3rkn]

I'm hoepful that Ford gives the EB a decent top end. I know that the EB is going to come with a baby turbo (I think I've seen K03 somewhere), and the baby turbo on the Speed3 was dead on the top end. When you started getting deep into 4th or 5th it was like hitting a wall.

I don't think you have read white papers on the EB 2.3..

Or, about the forged internals, or the twin scroll. This engine was specially designed for the Mustang and meant for banging on. You are the only one convinced that is a traditional small turbo.. Not a right-sized scrolling one.

Mazda's design is not as sophisticated, or use as much engineering. With just a tune, the EB will prob put down 350ft-lbs at 1,400..

Cooling won't be an issue, just look at the cross section in the front.

 

[Biffosaur]

The MS3 is a low 14 second car. Pretty darn fast!

All you have to do is go look at the current v6 mustang to get a feel for how the EB will run.

Stock 3.7l mustangs have run between 14-14.4 seconds pretty regularly (you can find a 13.75 on youtube, but I think it was on drag radials...I don't consider that 'stock')

If you consider the EB is getting 5hp and 40 lbft of torque (and at a much lower point in the powerband) I would expect it to drop into the mid 13's with a good driver.

The launch is extremely important for both of these cars, the MS3 because it's FWD and the EB because it has so much torque.

I think it would be a pretty good match up....especially once the boost starts getting turned up

 

[Biffosaur]

I don't think you have read white papers on the EB 2.3..

Or, about the forged internals, or the twin scroll. This engine was specially designed for the Mustang and meant for banging on. You are the only one convinced that is a traditional small turbo.. Not a right-sized scrolling one.

Mazda's design is not as sophisticated, or use as much engineering. With just a tune, the EB will prob put down 350ft-lbs at 1,400..

Cooling won't be an issue, just look at the cross section in the front.

Mazda is a pretty sophisticated group, Ford has learned a great deal over the years by working with Mazda engineers.

That said, the MS3 turbo was a limiting factor on that car (although swapping to a bigger one was easy and the engine could take a ton more boost).

This turbo is going to be plenty big for the engine, I don't expect it's going to hit a top end 'wall' any time soon.

 

[Voodoo1796]

I don't think you have read white papers on the EB 2.3..

Or, about the forged internals, or the twin scroll. This engine was specially designed for the Mustang and meant for banging on. You are the only one convinced that is a traditional small turbo.. Not a right-sized scrolling one.

I haven't, and was just going of what I had heard elsewhere. Someone else in here pointed out it wouldn't be a K03 (or similar) so that makes me more hopeful.

Also, the internals on the Speed3 were forged (if in name only) and I bent a rod with bolt ons and stock boost. I'll hold off on saying the internals on the Mustang will be strong to handle big power until someone independently cracks open the block and digs everything out. If there is a thread elsewhere where someone has already done this, feel free to point me in that direction.

And even with a properly sized twin scroll turbo for stock applications, size is still going to limit the ammount of boost you can run before your just blowing hot air.

Cooling won't be an issue, just look at the cross section in the front.

None of the pictures I've seen show a FMIC, but fingers crossed.

That said, the MS3 turbo was a limiting factor on that car (although swapping to a bigger one was easy and the engine could take a ton more boost).

The turbo and fuel combo were killers. Someone on one of the local Mazda forums was one of the first to go full bolt on with his Speed3, and with bolt ons and stock boost he was hitting fuel cut pretty hard.

 

[Biffosaur]

I haven't, and was just going of what I had heard elsewhere. Someone else in here pointed out it wouldn't be a K03 (or similar) so that makes me more hopeful.

Also, the internals on the Speed3 were forged (if in name only) and I bent a rod with bolt ons and stock boost. I'll hold off on saying the internals on the Mustang will be strong to handle big power until someone independently cracks open the block and digs everything out. If there is a thread elsewhere where someone has already done this, feel free to point me in that direction.

And even with a properly sized twin scroll turbo for stock applications, size is still going to limit the ammount of boost you can run before your just blowing hot air.



None of the pictures I've seen show a FMIC, but fingers crossed.



The turbo and fuel combo were killers. Someone on one of the local Mazda forums was one of the first to go full bolt on with his Speed3, and with bolt ons and stock boost he was hitting fuel cut pretty hard.

Yeah fuel was an issue too, that honestly might be the first thing the EB needs as far as upgrades.

I haven't seen a FMIC either.

 

[w3rkn]

Not sure where I've seen them, or what web forum. I'll have to look, in might be inside a pdf.

But, for a quick rundown of the new 2.3's virtues:

Here is an interesting link: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2014/06/fords-1-liter-ecoboost-engine/ <-- that kinda gives you an idea of what this 2.3L motor is bringing. Mulally pushed in this area, repairs are not good, overbuilding is marketing.



Owning a BMW n55 PPK2, inline-6 Twinscroll..
I am excited to see what Ford's has developed here, & see what it's potential is.

Most who seek moAr.. will opt for Ford's "PP" tune @ 350 tqz.. & other Fans will find ways of creating better efficiency, by destressing the engine(FMIC), or bigger tubing, exhaust.. but I think Ford will offer different lvls of tunes for the 2.3 EB. It haz brainz..

 

[Voodoo1796]

Not sure where I've seen them, or what web forum. I'll have to look, in might be inside a pdf.

Here is an interesting link: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2014/06/fords-1-liter-ecoboost-engine/ <-- that kinda gives you an idea of what this 2.3L motor is bringing. Mulally pushed in this area, repairs are not good, overbuilding is marketing.


Owning a BMW n55 PPK2, inline-6 Twinscroll..
I am excited to see what Ford's has developed here, & see what it's potential is.

Most who seek moAr.. will opt for Ford's "PP" tune @ 350 tqz.. & other Fans will find ways of creating better efficiency, by destressing the engine(FMIC), or bigger tubing, exhaust.. but I think Ford will offer different lvls of tunes for the 2.3 EB. It haz brainz..

I'll check out the links.

I read elsewhere on here that Cobb will be playing around with the EB in the Mustang. That bodes well for the car.

I'm not trying to discredit Ford on this at all. If you had told me a few years ago that two of the cars on my four car short list would be Fords, I'd have laughed in your face. I think of all the Big Domestic 3 (well, 2.5), they've have done the most to prove they know what the market wants and that they can make cars for that market.

 

[Swoope]

I haven't, and was just going of what I had heard elsewhere. Someone else in here pointed out it wouldn't be a K03 (or similar) so that makes me more hopeful.

Also, the internals on the Speed3 were forged (if in name only) and I bent a rod with bolt ons and stock boost. I'll hold off on saying the internals on the Mustang will be strong to handle big power until someone independently cracks open the block and digs everything out. If there is a thread elsewhere where someone has already done this, feel free to point me in that direction.

And even with a properly sized twin scroll turbo for stock applications, size is still going to limit the ammount of boost you can run before your just blowing hot air.



None of the pictures I've seen show a FMIC, but fingers crossed.



The turbo and fuel combo were killers. Someone on one of the local Mazda forums was one of the first to go full bolt on with his Speed3, and with bolt ons and stock boost he was hitting fuel cut pretty hard.

if your 08 speed 3 is what your are talking about here.. you are pissing up a rope.. k03 is a vw turbo.

this 2.3 is going to be way above what is going on right now. and i have had two 2.3 turbos from ford before.

beers

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