Diode Dynamics switchbacks?

[S550_Magnetic]

Agree. The DD guys shop is 2 miles from where I work. I went and met with them and picked up my switchbacks in person. These guys are doing it correct, and should be here to back their product up in the future. You have no clue when it comes to the eBay stuff.

That ebay seller is located in the USA and has great feedback. How do I know that DD is anymore reputable than that ebay seller? What proof is there?

If your DD bulbs go out at any point and it takes them 2 days (its longer than that btw) to get you a replacement. To legally drive your car during that 2 day period, you will have to go buy another set of turn signals or just not drive your car.

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[S550_Magnetic]

I would of taken my chances with the chinese bulbs. I messed up and put DD switch backs on my black 5.0, NOT doing the same for my red 5.0.
They do not match the running light temperatures and look JUST like the "ebay knockoffs."
Bases and item number looks and matches DDs. Feels like we are just getting reboxed chinese bulbs at a tailor made price. Their "rebased bulbs" were nothing more than their old ones dremeled down a bit to fit the ford socket. Here I was thinking I was going to be getting a whole new bulb w a NEW base. I picked up their over priced interior leds though, i like how they look. I am sure there is a chinese knockoff somewhere being sold for 2 bucks a pound.

That is exactly how I feel. I feel I was duped and it sure won't happen again.

 

[Blk2015GT]

Again and again, I don't see a problem with supporting a local (to this forum) merchant or why people are so butt hurt with others supporting DD.

Again, the DD blink only amber. The Chinese strobe between white and amber. They are NOT one and the same.

Are these knockoffs DOT complaint? Do they comply with vehicle lighting statutes in EVERY state? I'm a lawyer and I have no clue and not going to sit and research every state obviously. There may be a chance you get looks from law enforcement. There may be a chance you are too close to an emergency vehicle (those city/county/plow/construction vehicles) type colors (amber/white) strobing. It may be a legal issue state by state, I have no clue. But a $5/blub knockoff lighting plant in China is SURELY not going to pay your ticket that eats into all of your $30 savings; that is one for sure in all of this.

I can tell you right now I know of areas where you need a special permit for a white/amber flasher and the knockoffs may cause issues, Connecticut being one http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=810&q=319694 Bottom line, there may be legal issues with strobing colored lighting on a state by state basis.

Video here cued up at 2:00min for the strobe effect

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]id=Dv-dTNipgFg;t=120[/MEDIA]"]

Again, personally, I would rather stay safe than sorry and have OEM type operation and colors for a whole $30 more; that should last the life of the car.

Your car do whatever you want with it; we are merely suggesting people go with a proven company who warranties their product and has OEM color/operation to the bulb. It's $30 at the end of the day for something you should only have to put in your car one time.

 

[Diode Dynamics]

How sure are we DD stuff isn't made in china?

Many of our products are made in China, just like nearly all of the electronics you use every day. We're manufacturing an increasing number of them here, but tiny high-power bulbs are still cost-prohibitive to assemble here, which is why no company currently does it in the U.S. But what makes any difference between the iPhone in your pocket and the "IPhun" knockoff on eBay? Actual design and quality control.

Nearly all of our products are knocked-off in exterior design right after we start selling them. We've had many suppliers notify us that our competitors simply send pictures asking them to make our bulbs. It happens to every US designer/manufacturer constantly- ask wheel manufacturers how they feel about it.

These knockoff shops obviously make these look identical on the outside, so consumers can't tell the difference. The difference is all in the quality of components and internal circuit. eBay or Chinese-designed bulbs are made with the cheapest possible components and process possible. They take a design, and cut every corner possible. This results in a bulb that might light up OK, but will never perform the same as a bulb that actually uses the correct LEDs, correct components, and correct binning of LED chips.

This is very clear in the way many of the cheap switchbacks work, as many have mentioned- they don't flash properly. They were not designed that way, they just don't work correctly. Why? There is a small flash IC in the circuit that must be programmed correctly based on the total drive current, which then alternates colors through a set of transistors. Many of the little LED shops assembling these buy each part independently, already programmed, which is why you don't see the correct function in the end.

I personally used to buy a lot of cheap knockoff stuff when I was a teenager, but when you've been in electronics manufacturing a while, you understand that there's a reason quality products cost more. In electronics, it's not the "name brand," or "markup," it's because the actual cost going into them is higher. We pay triple for the LEDs to ensure all of them match each other perfectly. We use a 4-layer PCB in order to ensure adequate grounding on the LED driver IC. We use dual bridge rectifiers to ensure nonpolar operation and CK compatibility. You're not going to find all that in an off-the-shelf Chinese bulb. These knockoff sellers are making higher margins than we are!

Anyway, whether it's wheels, exhausts, or lighting, you'll always find knockoff products that can sort of get the job done at a cheaper price point. Here at Diode Dynamics, we work to provide the best quality possible, by using good components, and we back up our products. It's entirely your decision as the consumer whether to support a US-based company, or take your chances and save a few bucks. That's what eBay is for, right?


And by the way- look for a slight exterior redesign on our bulbs in June. We just did it to reduce height of the bulb a bit. Performance and operation is identical. There's of course no clearance problem in the Mustang, but the bulb is a bit too long in other vehicles- Jeeps, for example. You can bet you'll see our "exact same bulbs" pop up on eBay by August or September. And so the cycle continues...

 

[dspenc8888]

Diode Dynamics has excellent customer service, not all ebay vendors do, they back up their warranties, know from personal experience. also the knockoffs may not hold up for long in heat conditions.

 

[S550_Magnetic]

These are sold from LA in the USA. Why do you keep saying Chinese knock offs? Heck, that same company on ebay sells Cree bulbs, which are pretty high end LEDs.

 

[S550_Magnetic]

Many of our products are made in China, just like nearly all of the electronics you use every day. We're manufacturing an increasing number of them here, but tiny high-power bulbs are still cost-prohibitive to assemble here, which is why no company currently does it in the U.S. But what makes any difference between the iPhone in your pocket and the "IPhun" knockoff on eBay? Actual design and quality control.

Nearly all of our products are knocked-off in exterior design right after we start selling them. We've had many suppliers notify us that our competitors simply send pictures asking them to make our bulbs. It happens to every US designer/manufacturer constantly- ask wheel manufacturers how they feel about it.

These knockoff shops obviously make these look identical on the outside, so consumers can't tell the difference. The difference is all in the quality of components and internal circuit. eBay or Chinese-designed bulbs are made with the cheapest possible components and process possible. They take a design, and cut every corner possible. This results in a bulb that might light up OK, but will never perform the same as a bulb that actually uses the correct LEDs, correct components, and correct binning of LED chips.

This is very clear in the way many of the cheap switchbacks work, as many have mentioned- they don't flash properly. They were not designed that way, they just don't work correctly. Why? There is a small flash IC in the circuit that must be programmed correctly based on the total drive current, which then alternates colors through a set of transistors. Many of the little LED shops assembling these buy each part independently, already programmed, which is why you don't see the correct function in the end.

I personally used to buy a lot of cheap knockoff stuff when I was a teenager, but when you've been in electronics manufacturing a while, you understand that there's a reason quality products cost more. In electronics, it's not the "name brand," or "markup," it's because the actual cost going into them is higher. We pay triple for the LEDs to ensure all of them match each other perfectly. We use a 4-layer PCB in order to ensure adequate grounding on the LED driver IC. We use dual bridge rectifiers to ensure nonpolar operation and CK compatibility. You're not going to find all that in an off-the-shelf Chinese bulb. These knockoff sellers are making higher margins than we are!

Anyway, whether it's wheels, exhausts, or lighting, you'll always find knockoff products that can sort of get the job done at a cheaper price point. Here at Diode Dynamics, we work to provide the best quality possible, by using good components, and we back up our products. It's entirely your decision as the consumer whether to support a US-based company, or take your chances and save a few bucks. That's what eBay is for, right?


And by the way- look for a slight exterior redesign on our bulbs in June. We just did it to reduce height of the bulb a bit. Performance and operation is identical. There's of course no clearance problem in the Mustang, but the bulb is a bit too long in other vehicles- Jeeps, for example. You can bet you'll see our "exact same bulbs" pop up on eBay by August or September. And so the cycle continues...

Can you please post the patent number of your design? I am just wondering how these companies are LEGALLY making almost exact copies.

 

[Shanghai Dan]

Can you please post the patent number of your design? I am just wondering how these companies are LEGALLY making almost exact copies.

Note that patents are country-specific; even if you file a PCT "worldwide patent", all that does is establish a precedence date for your patent. You still need to file in each and every country of interest.

Thus it is perfectly legal for a company in China (or Germany, or Mexico) to manufacture/copy a part that was patented in the US. Now, importing them - or selling them - can be a whole different thing, and opens the importer/reseller up to legal liabilities. But the manufacturer, if they are not building in a country with an in-force patent in place, can do whatever they want.

I personally file all my patents in the US, Germany, and China. The US, because it's the biggest market and effectively protects all of North America (who's going to go after just the Canadian and Mexican markets, and ignore the US)? Germany for the same reason - it is the big dog in the EU, and forgoing the German market would make zero sales sense.

And China? Because China doesn't give a flying f*ck about anyone else's patents - but they are wicked strict with their own patents and trademarks. I've enforced my Chinese patents, in China, with very good results.

IF you have a patent you're going to file, make sure you file it everywhere that matters and do so in a timely manner.

IANAPL, but I have a few dozen to my name... ;)

 

[ETCH]

Nick,

does you company offer a package deal on all the bulbs for the 2015s? reason im asking I have gone to buy your bulbs twice, each time there was something out of stock. i was wondering if you guys offered a package deal, so i knew i got everything and didn't have to wait...

thanks


rich

 

[Blk2015GT]

Can you please post the patent number of your design? I am just wondering how these companies are LEGALLY making almost exact copies.

Now this I can answer having done some IP law in my past. You have to patent or trademark something in every country. A US patent only applies to the US. Filing patents in every country is EXTREMELY expensive- hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And as said above, China really respects no one's patents. Unless you are willing to go to China and fight there at a VERY high cost. And even then their patent laws are wonky at best. That is why all cloned goods come from China.

You can legally try to block imports, say into the US, but again at a very high cost to do so. And even then, you never stop all of them.

 

[Free Agent]

I just wanted to to add that you may be paying more but with the quality and customer service you get it can be WELL worth it. Recently we had a substitute rural mail carrier mis-deliver about $20 of bulbs to a couple of houses down from me. USPS had them as delivered to my residence. I contacted DD and they graciously offered to send me another set at no charge to me. Luckily a neighbor delivered them to me in a couple of days but the fact stands that DD was going to make me a happy customer even with USPS fucking it up. That right there is worth the extra coin if you ask me. I love a good bargain, believe me. But quality and customer service can be equally or greater in value. I will be ordering the switchbacks from DD soon. I love their business model. Regardless of what you buy, best of luck to all.

 

[AdrianMAK]

While we do not manufacture our LED Line of Bulbs ourselves, we do however only Private label Class A LED Bulbs which means they are very high quality units. The LED business is so large that millions of bulbs get made. When they go through QC, they are seperated in classes based on condition, quality and performance. Of course as can be understood the higher rated bulbs/lights are more expensive, there for sell for more money. They reason we stand behind our products is because we believe we have done everything possible to ensure that the customer is receiving the best product possible.

A lot of the times when you see any seller selling what looks like the same bulb much cheaper than ourselves for example, it is not necessarily a knock off. It probably is the same bulb but a Class B or Class C rated bulb. Those bulbs sometimes have visual defects, mal-aligned chips, dead leds, etc. For that reason those bulbs are much cheaper to purchase than Class A bulbs, which means they sell for much cheaper also.

Just keep in mind that not all LED re-sellers are created equal. The larger re-sellers know this, the smaller guys( i.e. your local stereo shops, small speed shops, etc...) sometimes do not know any better and are reselling what is available to them.

 

[S550_Magnetic]

I just wanted to to add that you may be paying more but with the quality and customer service you get it can be WELL worth it. Recently we had a substitute rural mail carrier mis-deliver about $20 of bulbs to a couple of houses down from me. USPS had them as delivered to my residence. I contacted DD and they graciously offered to send me another set at no charge to me. Luckily a neighbor delivered them to me in a couple of days but the fact stands that DD was going to make me a happy customer even with USPS fucking it up. That right there is worth the extra coin if you ask me. I love a good bargain, believe me. But quality and customer service can be equally or greater in value. I will be ordering the switchbacks from DD soon. I love their business model. Regardless of what you buy, best of luck to all.

Why would you contact DD when the postal service screwed up? It sure was nice of DD to send you replacements but don't you think you were ripping them off, considering it wasn't their fault?

 

[HoustonMustang]

I aways try to patronize the vendors that advertise on this forum.

I've placed 2 orders with with DD...and have been very pleased with the product & customer service!

I buy lots of merchandise on eBay...but the warranties and return policies with regards to eBay purchases can be cumbersome at best...

I had several questions with regards to LED fitment...and when I called DD...they promptly answered their phone...and quickly resolved my questions!

I would recommend DD to other forum members!

 

[Free Agent]

Why would you contact DD when the postal service screwed up? It sure was nice of DD to send you replacements but don't you think you were ripping them off, considering it wasn't their fault?

I had let DD know that USPS said the bulbs were delivered and that I was in the process of contacting the USPS to figure out what was wrong. I in no way shape or form asked for anything from DD other that letting them know USPS had screwed up and I was in the process of contacting them. (It was allegedly delivered on a Saturday afternoon and was to a neighbor I found out. Can't contact USPS on Sundays but I dropped DD a line that day to let them know what I was doing. The neighbor dropped it off on the Monday around noon right before I was to contact USPS. DD had on their own offered to send me another set no questions asked. And yes I would have offered to ship back the bulbs if they had ever showed up.) I find that going above and beyond for the customer.

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