Did Ford Ruin their Manual Trans? - Engineering Explained

[WD Pro]

Being from the UK and driving for 25+ years it strange that I never even considered learning stick an issue.

BITD autos were the rarity here and not often seen - very much reserved for and classed as old mans cruising cars.

Much more common now, but I’ve still done most of my driving in manuals - I’ve had two autos (BMW 7’s) and one SMG (M3) but my ordered mustang is a manual.

We had a friend of the family pass there test in an auto recently which I find hard to understand - a test in an auto in the UK gives you a licence which restricts you to autos only !

WD

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[Norm Peterson]

I learned to drive stick by watching. My dad and aunt had a RX-7 and Porsche 928 and I use to watch intently how they drive stick.

In large part, that's what's missing any more. Ever since the mid-1960's, fewer and fewer people have had the opportunity to watch other family members operate a car with a manual transmission. The sad part is that this has become its own self-feeding influence from each generation of drivers to the next.

When you regularly get to watch other people drive a stick-shift car it becomes one of those "I can do this, too" things. Otherwise, gearshifting means choosing 'D', 'R', or 'P' - and only doing that much "shifting" when the car is at a full stop and your right foot is on the brake.


Norm

 

[boB]

Being from the UK and driving for 25+ years it strange that I never even considered learning stick an issue.

BITD autos were the rarity here and not often seen - very much reserved for and classed as old mans cruising cars.

Much more common now, but I’ve still done most of my driving in manuals - I’ve had two autos (BMW 7’s) and one SMG (M3) but my ordered mustang is a manual.

We had a friend of the family pass there test in an auto recently which I find hard to understand - a test in an auto in the UK gives you a licence which restricts you to autos only !

WD

When I started traveling to UK for business in 1992 it was difficult to rent a car with an automatic. One of my colleagues could not drive a stick so I did all the driving but he started learning by shifting for me (left hand shifter was a new experience).

 

[green97probe]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I feel that the MT82-D4 is a better transmission that the Tremec 3650 that I was used to from both of the S197 GTs that I had.

To me, the Tremec 3650 never felt great on the highway. Fifth gear always felt too tall.

People seem to be quick to point out the quirks of the MT82. In my experience, the 3650 had it's own quirks and issues.

I'm interested to see how the 10R80 holds up for people over the years. It might be the quicker option down the dragstrip, but that's not everything.

 

[Norm Peterson]

5th in a 3650 is strictly a 'cruising gear', particularly with the 3.31 axle ratio. Shorter gearing and shorter tires help.

The only place where the 3650 can claim to be better than the MT82D4 is for the 3rd to 4th ratio spacing. The D4's 1.41 to 1.00 is just too wide for the speeds possible in those two gears. The 3650's 1.32 to 1.00 is much nicer, but really needs the D4's 5th gear ratio to finish the job of working with speeds from about 60 mph on up.


Norm.

 

[torqued]

People seem to be quick to point out the quirks of the MT82. In my experience, the 3650 had it's own quirks and issues.

Yep, I don't miss at all the frequent not wanting to go into R in my garage in the morning unless I ran it through a few other gears first. Or the occasional not wanting to go into 3rd on a hard turn that my first one had.

I don't miss the notchiness, the longer throws, and the heavier clutch. Someone here said this is the easiest MT they've driven, and I agree. It's just weird getting used to having to think to go a gear lower to downshift for passing power than I'm used to.

 

[Biggus Dickus]

My 2011 GT with a 3.73 went to 190K when I sold it and was still working fine. Still had the original clutch too.

The MT-82 is much maligned but it works fine. On the GT PP2, its a little notchy when cold, but I baby it until up to temp (that only takes a few miles) and it works fine. AFter warmed up, I don't baby it, but I don't act stupid either. The one thing I don't like is that 3->4 seems to catch late and jerks when it does. I find that fast shifting seems to help.

Also, I think with 305/30s, the overall tire diameter is a bit lower than a 275/40 and results in a slightly shorter gear.

 

[Fly2High]

Also, I think with 305/30s, the overall tire diameter is a bit lower than a 275/40 and results in a slightly shorter gear.

Yes. It results in a 3.94 when a 3.73 is installed.

 

[Michal]

We have the 3.55 standard on manual cars in the UK. I bought a Ford Racing Torsen and 4.09 gear set and can't wait to get them installed in my car when winter is over. It should make the car so much more fun for driving in the UK given our roads are so curvy and dynamic. The stock ratios mean you never leave 2nd gear and that's just not interactive enough.

Would be great if you could share your experience once changed. I got EU spec Bullitt with 3.55 and like to switch to 3.73 or 4.09 too !

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

If your going to make the switch, get the 4.09's. Going to 3.73's is not worth the expense or hassle as you would not notice the difference. The general rule is to go at least two steps away in either direction when making a gear change. you're at 3.55 now, 1 step would be to 3.73, second step would be 4.09

 

[Michal]

If your going to make the switch, get the 4.09's. Going to 3.73's is not worth the expense or hassle as you would not notice the difference. The general rule is to go at least two steps away in either direction when making a gear change. you're at 3.55 now, 1 step would be to 3.73, second step would be 4.09

Yes, thats also my thinking !

 

[Michal]

We have the 3.55 standard on manual cars in the UK. I bought a Ford Racing Torsen and 4.09 gear set and can't wait to get them installed in my car when winter is over. It should make the car so much more fun for driving in the UK given our roads are so curvy and dynamic. The stock ratios mean you never leave 2nd gear and that's just not interactive enough.

Did you make the conversion yet ?

 

[MustangVelocity]

I had a 2017 GT PP1 manual, now drive a 2019 GT PP1 auto, but I still really miss going through the gears. I'm not exactly happy with the 10R80, most when I go into manual paddle shift mode where it often lazily downshifts or upshifts for no apparent reason along with poor rev matching on downshifts from 4-3 and 3-2. Other times it's great and I assume most just leave it in D or S and forget about it. Perhaps a tune can address these issues but I'm little apprehensive since I still have 2 years remaining on the powertrain warranty. I'm seriously considering a manual 2021 GT PP1 but the negative user feedback about the transmission and especially the tall individual gearing. I know I'll lose some performance switching back to a manual, but the overall driving experience will make up for it, at least that's what I hoping for lol.

My question is for the manual 2018+ owners. How do you find the new taller gears? Did any of you have a manual 2015-2017 and if so how does it compare? Does the acceleration really feel the same?

 

[Silver Bullitt]

I didn’t own a pre-18 MT82, but I’ve driven a friend’s several times. With the added power of the Gen 3 over the Gen 2, it makes up for some of the shorter first gear of the MT82, not to mention it’ll rev to 7400-7500 rpm. Other than that, while there are pros and cons of each I suppose, I actually prefer the 18+ MT82-D4. In daily driving, the 3.66 first gear in the MT82 is almost useless. The 3.24 in the D4 is much more useable and almost identical to the 3.25 in the all so cherished Tremec. The con to the D4 is the gap between first and second 3.24-2.10. On the track, it can make second a bit sluggish when you need to really slow down (it’s just not hardly possible to go back to first). To me that’s the biggest downside, but I only track maybe two or three times a season.

On the strip, with 27” drag radials, I can trap in third gear eliminating the additional shift. To me, where the D4 is definitely a plus is having two overdrive gears. With the MT82, fifth is 1:1 and then you jump all the way to 0.65 for sixth. Since 65-80 mph is typical highway speeds, you’re either revving trying to stay in fifth or lugging in sixth with no in between. Fifth in the D4 is 0.81 and where I’ll be most of the time on the highway. I won’t shift to sixth unless I’m cruising on an open stretch with the cruise set on 80+.

Some of the naysayers still complain about the Getrag being notchy with 2-3 lockouts at higher rpm’s. Maybe I got a good one, but I think the throws feel crisp and move through the gates easily. I tend to drive spiritedly and have not had any lockout issues even shifting at redline. I do think the new twin disc clutch and dual mass flywheel improves shifting considerably. I had a Tremec in my cammed LS2 GTO with a JHP short throw, and I honestly don’t think that set up was much better. If anything, the Getrag is a little more crisp entering the gates.

There is no doubt the 10R80 will be faster in a straight line and will trap 3-5 mph faster in the 1/4, but I’m old school and just can’t imagine an auto being as much fun as a manual in a 400+ horsepower street car. To each their own I guess. Best of luck in your decision.

 

[MustangVelocity]

Thanks for the detailed reply, very helpful!

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