Covid Shots

[CJJon]

uh, it's YOU who is painfully ignorant at how medicine works. Why do doctors prescribe stuff wildly off label? Because oddly enough it works either from personal previous experimentation, the grapevine or a side-channel source of knowledge. They experiment all the damn time. That's how the entirety of medicine has worked for 3000 years.

Take the simple Crohn's disease. There's at least a half dozen theraputics. Doctors try various combinations of diet, 6 different meds, and other tangentially related (or not releated) concoctions till they find one that works for the patent. Do they give a shit that the combo isn't in the sole compendium of approved medical knowledge? No. as long as it works and has no untoward side-effects, it's good to go. If it works for enough patients they write a paper and other doctors get clued in that hey, this other alternative works as well.

Please, I am in medicine, I do this exact work for a living. You don't know what you are talking about.

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[CJJon]

from 20-something healthy individuals to a broader population of like-age and like-condition patients. Sure. But as a medical "professional" you actually believe you can extrapolate that into a geriatric population of lousy health says a lot about your understanding of the human body.

Yep, it is done all the time.

 

[shogun32]

So basically you don’t dispute the extra 300.000 deaths due to COVID-19

Even the CDC doesn't know what the deaths are from. They deliberately contaminated their dataset into complete uselessness.

Yes Cuomo murdered 10,000 and possibly more seniors in their nursing home beds more so than the trend line from previous years.

Yes, deaths from all causes in 2020 is elevated vis-a-vis the 2015-2019 bands.
option #9 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

but attribute them to medical/political malpractice ?

yes, the refusal to treat the inflammation on pain of "ex-communication", relying on discredited protocols (ventilators) and deliberate failure to forcibly quarantine ALL MEDICAL and their support staff in ALL hospitals and nursing homes with active cases. That is the very definition of malpractice.

 

[shogun32]

Yep, it is done all the time.

then modern American medicine is a farce and does not operate on the basis of sound scientific procedure.

 

[CJJon]

(Snipped more nonsense)

yes, the refusal to treat the inflammation on pain of "ex-communication", relying on discredited protocols (ventilators) and deliberate failure to forcibly quarantine ALL MEDICAL and their support staff in ALL hospitals and nursing homes with active cases. That is the very definition of malpractice.

What in the world are you going on about? The Earth is Flat, ammirite?

 

[CJJon]

then modern American medicine is a farce and does not operate on the basis of sound scientific procedure.

Says the guy who thinks it is OK to experiment with patients lives because that is what malpractice insurance is for. Just give them the hydroxychloroquine and see what happens, huh?

I think you might just be a troll.

 

[shogun32]

Wearing a mask do offer a greater level of protection than not wearing one and you wear it more to protect other people than yourself

again, DISCREDITED by the evidence. Go read the actual research papers, not passively listen to the bullshit in the media. Masks for source control has been studied for over 15 years. EVERY SINGLE TIME they prove it does basically nothing.

 

[CJJon]

again, DISCREDITED by the evidence. Go read the actual research papers, not passively listen to the bullshit in the media. Masks for source control has been studied for over 15 years. EVERY SINGLE TIME they prove it does basically nothing.

I call bullshit here, what evidence?

 

[CJJon]

again, DISCREDITED by the evidence. Go read the actual research papers, not passively listen to the bullshit in the media. Masks for source control has been studied for over 15 years. EVERY SINGLE TIME they prove it does basically nothing.

Here is mine:

1. Your guide to masks. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html. Accessed Feb. 2, 2021.
2. Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) advice for the public: When and how to use masks. World Health Organization. https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...9/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks. Accessed Feb. 2, 2021.
3. Considerations for wearing masks. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html. Accessed Feb. 1, 2021.
4. N95 respirators and surgical masks (face masks). U.S. Food and Drug Administration. https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...n95-respirators-and-surgical-masks-face-masks. Accessed Feb. 2, 2021.
5. Greenhalgh T, et al. Face masks for the public during the covid-19 crisis. BMJ. 2020; doi:10.1136/bmj.m1435. BMJ. 2020; doi:10.1136/bmj.m1422.
6. Mahase E. Covid-19: What is the evidence for cloth masks? BMJ. 2020; doi:10.1136/bmj.m1422.
7. Feng S, et al. Rational use of face masks in the COVID-19 pandemic. Lancet Respiratory Medicine. 2020; doi:10.1016/S2213-2600(20)30134-X.
8. Cowling BJ, et al. Impact assessment of non-pharmaceutical interventions against coronavirus disease 2019 and influenza in Hong Kong: An observational study. Lancet Public Health. 2020; doi.org/10.1016/S2468-2667(20)30090-6.
9. Howard J, et al. An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 2021; doi:10.1073/pnas.2014564118.
10. Personal protective equipment: Questions and answers. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html. Accessed Feb. 2, 2021.
11. Chu DK, et al. Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: A systematic review and meta-analysis. The Lancet. 2020; doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(20)31142-9.
12. Tso RV, et al. Importance of face masks for COVID-19: A call for effective public education. Clinical Infectious Diseases. 2020; doi:10.1093/cid/ciaa593.
13. Lyu W, et al. Community use of face masks and COVID-19: Evidence from a natural experiment of state mandates in the US. Health Affairs. 2020; doi:10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818.
14. McIntosh K. Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): Epidemiology, virology, and prevention. https://www.uptodate.com/contents/search. Accessed Feb. 2, 2021.
15. Transmission of SARS-CoV-2: Implications for infection prevention precautions. World Health Organization. https://www.who.int/publications/i/...plications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations. Accessed Feb. 2, 2021.
16. Gandhi M, et al. Uniting infectious disease and physical science principles on the importance of face masks for COVID-19. Med (NY). 2021; doi:10.1016/j.medj.2020.12.008.
17. Verma S, et al. Visualizing droplet dispersal for face shields and masks with exhalation valves. Physics of Fluids. 2020; doi:10.1063/5.0022968.
18. Perencevich EN, et al. Moving personal protective equipment into the community: Face shields and containment of COVID-19. JAMA. 2020; doi:10.1001/jama.2020.7477.
19. Clase CM, et al. Forgotten technology in the COVID-19 pandemic: Filtration properties of cloth and cloth masks. Mayo Clinic Proceedings. 2020; doi:10.1016/j.mayocp.2020.07.020.
20. Darby S, et al. COVID-19: Mask efficacy is dependent on both fabric and fit. Future Microbiology. 2021; doi:10.2217/fmb-2020-0292.
21. Improve how your mask protects you. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effective-masks.html. Accessed Feb. 10, 2021.
22. Brooks JT, et al. Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks to Improve Performance and Reduce SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Exposure, 2021. Morbitity and Mortality Weekly Report. 2021; doi:http://dx.doi.org/10.15585/mmwr.mm7007e1.

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[shogun32]

Just give them the hydroxychloroquine and see what happens, huh?

and the tens of thousands who got HCQ in a timely fashion and lived to tell about are what? FIgments of the international medical community? Or since they're from Africa or the Indian continent, their medical observations are ipso facto false and untrue?

 

[CJJon]

and the tens of thousands who got HCQ in a timely fashion and lived to tell about are what? FIgments of the international medical community? Or since they're from Africa or the Indian continent, their medical observations are ipso facto false and untrue?

And if they die they there is always the malpractice insurance.

Got it.

 

[K4fxd]

Hydroxychloroquine is a safe and effective drug that has been used from the 50's. If it helps covid patients great. If it does not it sure as hell won't hurt them.

Telling Dr's they would lose their license if they prescribed it was over the top political.

 

[CJJon]

Hydroxychloroquine is a safe and effective drug that has been used from the 50's. If it helps covid patients great. If it does not it sure as hell won't hurt them.

Telling Dr's they would lose their license if they prescribed it was over the top political.

It does not help as randomized controlled studies have shown. Thus the benefits far outweigh the risks and that is a fact. That is why doctors were told not to prescribe it off-label to treat covid.

Thinking otherwise borders on conspiracy paranoia.

 

[K4fxd]

It does not help as randomized controlled studies have shown. Thus the benefits far outweigh the risks and that is a fact.

What risks? It has been prescribed since the 1950's. It has been proven to be safe.


I'd rather take it than the vaccine.

 

[CJJon]

What risks? It has been prescribed since the 1950's. It has been proven to be safe.


I'd rather take it than the vaccine.

Not in the treatment of covid it hasn't. More flat Earth stuff...

Not only doesn't hydroxychloroquine work, the National Institute of Health has recommended against the use of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin because the combination is associated with abnormalities in heart rhythm or sudden cardiac death.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapeutic-management/

No doctor that is worth going to is going to prescribe it anyway, not based on some far-fetched conspiracy, but because it doesn't work and there is potential for harm.

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