Cooled seats not cooling

[Darko66]

Question:

Would the system benefit from wider tubing as opposed to smaller diameter tubing as pictured in your modification?

Meaning, why have multiple smaller diameter tubes as depicted in a few posts back and instead design the cap so that is has a single wide opening and the flex tube would be just as wide (and cut to proper length)?

Wouldn't a single, wider exhaust tube be more efficient?

Also, isn't there a 'hack' to bump the voltage to the fan motor so it too is more efficient?

Good questions. I guess I didn't explain why I went the way I did.

I originally was using a 1-1/2" defroster tube that was great. It had an accordion action to it so it could be shaped. If I could have found a smaller version of the same I probably would have found a way to work with it. What I was really hoping to find was a wide flat hose, but no luck there.

Unfortunately, our seats don't have much room in them. A single larger round tube requires a deeper attachment which would push up against the seat. I could have possibly made some sort of transition that allowed for less depth, but then there's a height issue. And, the bigger the tube, the more bulging on the back off the seat. But the real issue is that I wanted the tubes to reach all the way to the front of the seat. In order to do that they have to go under the seat frame which has less than an inch clearance.

I haven't finalized anything for the exhaust yet. It's only roughly half as much air as the intake so a smaller single tube could be used, but I think that one way or another the exhaust has to go out the top of the seat back and not below the seat. I'll talk about that later.

I don't know anything about a voltage hack. I suspect that there might be a way for Ford to boost the fan speed via their diagnostic system. If anyone is pals with their service manager, maybe you can ask them to poke around and see what options are available for the seat control module (SCME). They don't have to change anything, just take a look.

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[Darko66]

Okay, I finally got a parts dealer that was selling the blower unit at a reasonable price to confirm that the unit was a modified one that included the snorkel sock. I went ahead and purchased one so that I can inspect and test it. Hopefully, I'll get it before the weekend.

Top priorities: check to see if the sock allows sufficient airflow, check if bending the sock as required to fit in the seat restricts airflow, evaluate whether any simple additions could improve upon it, compare performance to my modification.

I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Check out this available duct tubing on this site, specifically part numbers 5588, 5589 and 5590:

http://nostalgicac.com/duct-hose-vents/duct-hose-and-vents.html

I wonder if that will work?

More flat duct piping/tubing styles:
https://m.alibaba.com/showroom/flat-duct.html

 

[SolarFlare]

So I read through the first 20 pages and got a headache. Just quickly please summerize for me...

Did someone find a fix, if so link?

Did Ford find a fix, if so please link?

If previous 2 are no, did someone find a combination to run the AC (speed/temp/direction of air flow) to at least alleviate the problem?

Thanks.

 

[DB23]

^^^ Ford has issued a TSB which Ive had done and helps a bit IMHO - back cools a bit instead of blowing warm air lol. http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42707&d=1443113096

Go back a page or two for the latest fix attempt from [MENTION=16202]Darko66[/MENTION]

 

[Rich of So Cal]

So I read through the first 20 pages and got a headache. Just quickly please summerize for me...

Did someone find a fix, if so link?

Did Ford find a fix, if so please link?

If previous 2 are no, did someone find a combination to run the AC (speed/temp/direction of air flow) to at least alleviate the problem?

Thanks.

It's a poor design period! It works best if the car is nice and cool already. But, don't put anything under the seat or in the back pockets, not even hats!

 

[Darko66]

Check out this available duct tubing on this site, specifically part numbers 5588, 5589 and 5590:

http://nostalgicac.com/duct-hose-vents/duct-hose-and-vents.html

I wonder if that will work?

More flat duct piping/tubing styles:
https://m.alibaba.com/showroom/flat-duct.html

Unfortunately, I think the ones in your first link are just solid plastic, non-flexible tubes.

I wasted tons of time looking for an ideal solution and I'm sure it's out there, but I wanted something easily accessible and fairly inexpensive.

There doesn't seem to be any significant performance issue with using the 3 smaller tubes. If anything, the 3-foot run to the front of the seat would be a greater hindrance, but it doesn't seem to be an issue either and the benefits would be worth it anyway.

The 3 tubes do look a little silly though, but you appreciate them more when having to navigate them under the very crowded seat.

Got the blower unit I ordered that includes the intake sock yesterday, so will provide some details about it later today.

 

[ctlaw]

Did someone find a fix, if so link?

I doubt it. Sorry Darko66

Did Ford find a fix, if so please link?

Ford's TSB fix is almost undetectable.

If previous 2 are no, did someone find a combination to run the AC (speed/temp/direction of air flow) to at least alleviate the problem?

If I run the ac on high fan speed and direct all the air toward the footwells, I get a noticable improvement. Not great, but noticable. Of course the seat bottom gets really cold and the seat back just gets moderately cool. The cost of losing the cold air flow to my face is not worth it

 

[SolarFlare]

Ok thanks guys, I may try to go to my dealer during my vacation and see if this TSB can be done.

 

[Lost]

Well I was hoping for a more streamlined and elegant solution, but it's at least simple and somewhat adaptable.

I decided to give up on my original idea of attaching it onto the existing deflector since it just made it bulkier and it was a pain trying to zip tie it on. So, ended up with a design that will just screw on using the deflector's attachment points (a hook and 2 screws).

In an attempt to not have too much of a bulge in the back of the seat and out of necessity due to the limited clearance under the seat, I opted to go with three 3/4" ID tubes that are each 36" long. That length is enough to get the tubes to the front of the seat. I was hoping to do it with only two, but it seemed to be too restrictive. Any 3/4" ID tube should work, but I opted for pond tubing because it's corrugated (yet still fairly smooth inside) and although not as flexible as I'd like, flexible enough. I was worried that non-corrugated tubing would kink, so didn't try any. I considered the blue conduit that the F-150 guy used for his fix, but it seemed too rigid for our restrictive space. I tried non-split wire loom which I liked, but the airflow across the corrugation resulted in a not-so-subtle whistling.

I don't have one of Ford's sock modified versions, so I can only make some assumptions as to pros/cons of this addition vs. theirs. Since I can't test it side-by-side, I can't be sure there's an advantage and only assume so based on assumptions about their fixes limitations.

Pros: Intake hoses won't kink and are able to draw in sufficient air for the fan to operate at max output. Hoses extend out past the bottom seat cooler exhaust to the front of the seat to breath in cooler air.

Cons: Less elegant – back of seat will not be smooth when closed up. Additional cost plus need to self install. Pond tubing has slight rubber odor.

My experience with the attachment has been positive. It doesn't provide amazing performance, because it's still limited by the cooling unit's abilities, but it does provide actual sustained cooling.

So, the point of all this is to see if anyone wants me to produce this intake only part for them. I'm still trying to figure out if adding an exhaust option is helpful.

Keep in mind that you would likely need to remove the blower unit from the seat. Although I think it's possible to install it w/o removing it, it would require some dexterity and a small or flexible enough screwdriver to get to the screws. Either way you would need a Torx T6 screwdriver.

I would produce only the plastic attachments and you would be responsible for getting your own tubing. The pond tubing I'm leaning toward I got from Home Depot. It comes in a 20ft roll, which is enough for both seats. I tried some from Amazon that was cheaper at the time, but one of the pieces I cut seems to have wilted in the heat of the car. It's a little thinner and more flexible, so I was hoping it would work out, but I guess not.

Not sure of the forum rules, so hopefully not going afoul of them. Just to give you a rough idea of cost, if you got the same tubing as I did, you'd probably need to spend around $40 plus tax to do both seats. That would include two of the attachments from me plus a roll of tubing. It wouldn't be much cheaper to only do one seat due to postage and the need to buy the 20ft roll.

If there's interest, I suppose I'll figure out a way to facilitate and provide guidance.

Thanks

I'm in if this is better than the TSB solution. Would love a step by step tutorial with LOTS of pics.

How much does it suck that a single talented forum member can come up with a better solution than the folks who made the car?

 

[Rich of So Cal]

If I run the ac on high fan speed and direct all the air toward the footwells, I get a noticable improvement. Not great, but noticable. Of course the seat bottom gets really cold and the seat back just gets moderately cool.


The cost of losing the cold air flow to my face is not worth it

That was my experience also

 

[Darko66]

Quick test of Ford's TSB modification

Couple of points of interest.

The shell no longer has the attachment points for the deflector that is on our original units. The sock is glued on possibly to the inside of the shell as well as the outside. Any kind of addition to the unit would be difficult and likely irreversible.

The deflector that was added isn't what I thought it would be. I thought they added it to deflect away from the hose going into the seat, but it actually deflects the air back toward the seat. I guess they were wanting to keep the hot air away from the intake. It would probably have been better if they'd just left it off.

I did a quick "outside of the seat" test of the unit. Unfortunately it failed my super-scientific trash bag fill test. I simply attach a 13gal kitchen trash bag to the seat-side hose and see how long it takes to fill the bag. It's not precise, but gives a general idea of how much air is being pushed. The original units with or without my attachment take about 18-20 seconds to fill the bag. The TSB modified unit took 36 seconds.

It's quite a step backwards. I don't think it's the intake sock restricting airflow, so I'm assuming that they decided to use a slower speed fan. They likely did that because one of the original issues we were having is the fan overheating and causing a hot spot in the center of the seat. Of course, the fan is only overheating because it isn't able to draw in fresh air or at least not able to draw in enough air to stay cool.

I don't think there's any point in me installing the unit in the seat to test it. It will likely show good temperatures, but the airflow is so limited that it won't do a very good job of actually cooling the seat.

It seems to me the primary relief the TSB provides is the elimination of the hot spot. Since it does at least intake air from outside the seat it might provide some cooling in mild temperatures and could be better for long trips than the original. However you might be better off keeping the original unit and just unhooking the back flap of the seat so that the inside of the seat isn't so bottled up and can breath a little.

I'll take some closeup photos of the unit and post them later.

 

[Rich of So Cal]

Couple of points of interest.

The shell no longer has the attachment points for the deflector that is on our original units. The sock is glued on possibly to the inside of the shell as well as the outside. Any kind of addition to the unit would be difficult and likely irreversible.

The deflector that was added isn't what I thought it would be. I thought they added it to deflect away from the hose going into the seat, but it actually deflects the air back toward the seat. I guess they were wanting to keep the hot air away from the intake. It would probably have been better if they'd just left it off.

I did a quick "outside of the seat" test of the unit. Unfortunately it failed my super-scientific trash bag fill test. I simply attach a 13gal kitchen trash bag to the seat-side hose and see how long it takes to fill the bag. It's not precise, but gives a general idea of how much air is being pushed. The original units with or without my attachment take about 18-20 seconds to fill the bag. The TSB modified unit took 36 seconds.

It's quite a step backwards. I don't think it's the intake sock restricting airflow, so I'm assuming that they decided to use a slower speed fan. They likely did that because one of the original issues we were having is the fan overheating and causing a hot spot in the center of the seat. Of course, the fan is only overheating because it isn't able to draw in fresh air or at least not able to draw in enough air to stay cool.

I don't think there's any point in me installing the unit in the seat to test it. It will likely show good temperatures, but the airflow is so limited that it won't do a very good job of actually cooling the seat.

It seems to me the primary relief the TSB provides is the elimination of the hot spot. Since it does at least intake air from outside the seat it might provide some cooling in mild temperatures and could be better for long trips than the original. However you might be better off keeping the original unit and just unhooking the back flap of the seat so that the inside of the seat isn't so bottled up and can breath a little.

I'll take some closeup photos of the unit and post them later.

Maybe we could do something drastic, like replace the entire seat back with mesh material. Nobody sits in the back seat anyway. :shrug:

 

[DB23]

Maybe we could do something drastic, like replace the entire seat back with mesh material. Nobody sits in the back seat anyway. :shrug:

Indeed. I had the TSB fix and it does seem to work a touch better. But I am tempted to cut a hole in the seatback and put in a 1 or 2 inch screened vent to try and let more hot TED exhaust out. I'm curious to see if Darko can show his exhaust piece really helps.

 

[Darko66]

TSB Unit Pics

Just a few pics to show the intake sock and deflector.

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