Cooled seats not cooling

[Darko66]

Sorry, I forgot to mention.

For now, at least, it would be for shipping to the U.S. only.

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[GT Pony]

I don't have one of Ford's sock modified versions, so I can only make some assumptions as to pros/cons of this addition vs. theirs. Since I can't test it side-by-side, I can't be sure there's an advantage and only assume so based on assumptions about their fixes limitations.

My experience with the attachment has been positive. It doesn't provide amazing performance, because it's still limited by the cooling unit's abilities, but it does provide actual sustained cooling.

Nice job on making the attaching manifold. I'm wondering if the Peltier TED units used for Ford's TSB perform better, otherwise why would they replace the TED units in the seat back?

I'd be interested to see if someone would be willing to try your mod on their car that has had the seat cooling TSB done to see how much difference it makes on the updated TED units.

Could you get the TED unit/assembly out of the seat without removing the seat from the car?

 

[Darko66]

Nice job on making the attaching manifold. I'm wondering if the TED units used for Ford's TSB perform better, otherwise why would they replace the TED units in the seat back?

I'd be interested to see if someone would be willing to try your mod on their car that has had the seat cooling TSB done to see how much difference it makes on the updated TED units.

Could you get the TED out of the seat without removing the seat from the car?

I believe the unit is the same. I think Ford just took the existing blower unit and instead of the deflector they attached the sock. I assume they figured it was easier to just ship dealers a new unit with the sock attached than to have the dealers attach the sock. Perhaps it glued on. I think I recall the F-150 guy saying his attachment wasn't compatible with the units that had the sock attached. Maybe it doesn't come off easily. I probably should have mentioned that mine might not work on a sock modified unit.

Yes, the blower unit can be removed without removing the seat. Droid Junky did it originally and I've done it. You just have to do it one handed.

 

[papinist]

Great job!
Based on whay you experimented so far, could be possible to install some additional fan to help the airflow to\from the peltier unit? Or to replace the unit itself with a more efficient one?

 

[ForYourOwnGood]

I just noticed this thread, my car is a brand new 2016 and the back of my seat stopped cooling the second time I used the feature. I'll have to read through the info here.

 

[Darko66]

Great job!
Based on whay you experimented so far, could be possible to install some additional fan to help the airflow to\from the peltier unit? Or to replace the unit itself with a more efficient one?

I was going to try to see what would happen if I added a couple of little fans to the intake even though it wouldn't be all that practical. I haven't had a chance to but I don't think it would make that much of a difference.

As far as swapping out the unit with something better, the primary issue would be finding an existing unit that would fit and even then it likely wouldn't align with the current supports in the seat. Ford could work with their suppliers on a better design, but they don't seem to have any interest in that.

 

[GT Pony]

As far as swapping out the unit with something better, the primary issue would be finding an existing unit that would fit and even then it likely wouldn't align with the current supports in the seat. Ford could work with their suppliers on a better design, but they don't seem to have any interest in that.

I'm assuming the TED units are basically the same used on the seat bottoms (which seem to work pretty well) and the seat backs (which don't seem to work at all). If so, then the lack of performance on the seat backs would seem to be directly related to inadequate air intake and exhaust. Your setup to get more cooler cabin air into the units confirms that.

The TED on the seat bottom can exhaust hot air way better that the one in the seat back, which is important to prevent the unit from heat soak and over heating.

 

[ctlaw]

I'm assuming the TED units are basically the same used on the seat bottoms (which seem to work pretty well) and the seat backs (which don't seem to work at all). If so, then the lack of performance on the seat backs would seem to be directly related to inadequate air intake and exhaust. Your setup to get more cooler cabin air into the units confirms that.

The TED on the seat bottom can exhaust hot air way better that the one in the seat back, which is important to prevent the unit from heat soak and over heating.

Does the seat bottom TED exhaust heat in such a way as to heat up the intake air of the seat back TED?

 

[ctlaw]

I just noticed this thread, my car is a brand new 2016 and the back of my seat stopped cooling the second time I used the feature. I'll have to read through the info here.

It probably just faked you out the first time. The car may have been relatively cool to begin with.

I got my car in the winter, so the seat cooling initially appeared weak, but functional. Then as temperatures increased, things fell apart.

 

[Rich of So Cal]

It probably just faked you out the first time. The car may have been relatively cool to begin with.

I got my car in the winter, so the seat cooling initially appeared weak, but functional. Then as temperatures increased, things fell apart.

Now I can only feel the cooling when my car is cool. When it's hot I don't even feel the bottom. But I can hear the fan and the dealer says it works. It's the emperors new clothes all over again!

 

[GT Pony]

Does the seat bottom TED exhaust heat in such a way as to heat up the intake air of the seat back TED?

Could be possible that's going on too since the seat bottom TED must exhaust its hot air underneath the seat.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Well I was hoping for a more streamlined and elegant solution, but it's at least simple and somewhat adaptable.

I decided to give up on my original idea of attaching it onto the existing deflector since it just made it bulkier and it was a pain trying to zip tie it on. So, ended up with a design that will just screw on using the deflector's attachment points (a hook and 2 screws).

In an attempt to not have too much of a bulge in the back of the seat and out of necessity due to the limited clearance under the seat, I opted to go with three 3/4" ID tubes that are each 36" long. That length is enough to get the tubes to the front of the seat. I was hoping to do it with only two, but it seemed to be too restrictive. Any 3/4" ID tube should work, but I opted for pond tubing because it's corrugated (yet still fairly smooth inside) and although not as flexible as I'd like, flexible enough. I was worried that non-corrugated tubing would kink, so didn't try any. I considered the blue conduit that the F-150 guy used for his fix, but it seemed too rigid for our restrictive space. I tried non-split wire loom which I liked, but the airflow across the corrugation resulted in a not-so-subtle whistling.

I don't have one of Ford's sock modified versions, so I can only make some assumptions as to pros/cons of this addition vs. theirs. Since I can't test it side-by-side, I can't be sure there's an advantage and only assume so based on assumptions about their fixes limitations.

Pros: Intake hoses won't kink and are able to draw in sufficient air for the fan to operate at max output. Hoses extend out past the bottom seat cooler exhaust to the front of the seat to breath in cooler air.

Cons: Less elegant – back of seat will not be smooth when closed up. Additional cost plus need to self install. Pond tubing has slight rubber odor.

My experience with the attachment has been positive. It doesn't provide amazing performance, because it's still limited by the cooling unit's abilities, but it does provide actual sustained cooling.

So, the point of all this is to see if anyone wants me to produce this intake only part for them. I'm still trying to figure out if adding an exhaust option is helpful.

Keep in mind that you would likely need to remove the blower unit from the seat. Although I think it's possible to install it w/o removing it, it would require some dexterity and a small or flexible enough screwdriver to get to the screws. Either way you would need a Torx T6 screwdriver.

I would produce only the plastic attachments and you would be responsible for getting your own tubing. The pond tubing I'm leaning toward I got from Home Depot. It comes in a 20ft roll, which is enough for both seats. I tried some from Amazon that was cheaper at the time, but one of the pieces I cut seems to have wilted in the heat of the car. It's a little thinner and more flexible, so I was hoping it would work out, but I guess not.

Not sure of the forum rules, so hopefully not going afoul of them. Just to give you a rough idea of cost, if you got the same tubing as I did, you'd probably need to spend around $40 plus tax to do both seats. That would include two of the attachments from me plus a roll of tubing. It wouldn't be much cheaper to only do one seat due to postage and the need to buy the 20ft roll.

If there's interest, I suppose I'll figure out a way to facilitate and provide guidance.

Thanks

Just curious, will you be posting a complete DIY w/pics on how you have (or will) perform the upgrade based on your above statements?

Does the actual TSB show step by step and what the revised (or replacement TED) looks like?

Also, did I miss the "F150" TED revision or TSB, as I see the references but have not stumbled across the hyperlink to read about the F150 update? Please post up the reference for further reading, thnaks!

 

[Cobra Jet]

Just stumbled across this in the event no one else has seen it... Maybe some info from within this link will help with ideas to improve the design and/or better understand how to improve the overall system:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ford...out-climate-controlled-seats/223295744373477/

And

The F150 "fix":
http://www.dryfilament.com/ford-tsb-seat-cooling.html

And

More technical info about TEDs:
http://homepages.wmich.edu/~leehs/ME695/Car Seat Climate Control.pdf

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2006/session6/2006_deer_bell.pdf

 

[Darko66]

Link to TSB info and PDF

Here's the page of the forum where the TSB info was posted back in September. Includes photos of the modified unit with snorkel sock.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=798654&highlight=Tsb#post798654

 

[Cobra Jet]

Here's the page of the forum where the TSB info was posted back in September. Includes photos of the modified unit with snorkel sock.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=798654&highlight=Tsb#post798654

Question:

Would the system benefit from wider tubing as opposed to smaller diameter tubing as pictured in your modification?

Meaning, why have multiple smaller diameter tubes as depicted in a few posts back and instead design the cap so that is has a single wide opening and the flex tube would be just as wide (and cut to proper length)?

Wouldn't a single, wider exhaust tube be more efficient?

Also, isn't there a 'hack' to bump the voltage to the fan motor so it too is more efficient?

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