Consensus on PPF and Ceramic

[kilobravo]

XS: And therein lies the major, long-term problem with PPF. Anyone who has TRIED to remove it after it's been on for a long time wil find that it is an exercise in futility. Even soaking it for days with adhesive remover doesn't help much.

I too keep mine for many years and that's the main reason why I'm switching to ceramic.

The only solution is to remove film after three or four years and re-film it which can get pretty expensive if you keep the car for a long time.

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[Skwibbs]

XS: And therein lies the major, long-term problem with PPF. Anyone who has TRIED to remove it after it's been on for a long time wil find that it is an exercise in futility. Even soaking it for days with adhesive remover doesn't help much.

I too keep mine for many years and that's the main reason why I'm switching to ceramic.

The only solution is to remove film after three or four years and re-film it which can get pretty expensive if you keep the car for a long time.

Good film kept healthy and indoors should last way longer than 3-4 years though, no?

My car is fully wrapped in ppf now, and any little microscratches are all "gone", as in completely invisible until the film comes back off. Then maybe paint correction if I feel like it, then film again.

As far as ceramic on top of ppf, I don't think there is a full concensus yet. I'd say not necessary at all. I love the tiny bit of self healing the film has so I can wipe a spot here or there with detail spray and not worry about microscratches (which can happen in ceramic iirc)

 

[09cs]

Good film kept healthy and indoors should last way longer than 3-4 years though, no?

My car is fully wrapped in ppf now, and any little microscratches are all "gone", as in completely invisible until the film comes back off. Then maybe paint correction if I feel like it, then film again.

As far as ceramic on top of ppf, I don't think there is a full concensus yet. I'd say not necessary at all. I love the tiny bit of self healing the film has so I can wipe a spot here or there with detail spray and not worry about microscratches (which can happen in ceramic iirc)

I have my car fully wrapped with Xpel + ceramic coat. It makes cleaning so much easier. Nothing sticks to it any more

 

[wilkinda65]

I did PPF on just the front end, mirrors, windshield pillars and top strip across top of the windshield on the roof section. I did this due to the "Love Bug" seasons we have twice a year here in Florida. Those nasty little shits will destroy the front end if they are not removed quick enough. I'd rather replace the PPF then repaint the front end. So I have ceramic over the PPF and ceramic on the whole car not covered in PPF

 

[Skwibbs]

I have my car fully wrapped with Xpel + ceramic coat. It makes cleaning so much easier. Nothing sticks to it any more

Ceramic alone does that for sure, but most ppf have hydrophobic properties as well. Honestly for washes I use a filtered system for the final rinse, whether or not it was just a touchless wash, and just park the car in the garage under the fans soaking wet. Come back in a couple hours and it's perfect.

Edit: yeah fuck lovebugs.

 

[likeaboss]

I highly recommend a paint correction, ppf and ceramic coating in that order. When I get my GT500 I plan to follow the same protection plan for PPF installation I did on my GT350.
All the painted surfaces on the front bumper, hood, front fenders, mirrors, a pillar, roof and rear fenders right behind the door and before the wheel well.

 

[kilobravo]

Good film kept healthy and indoors should last way longer than 3-4 years though, no?

S: Yes, for sure the vinyl will last MUCH longer but it's the long-term adhesion to the clear coat that is the problem. In some instances, I have been completely unable to remove a custom piece, as in around a door handle. I worked on it for days and never did get more than a small part of it off. Sold the truck as is.

As far as ceramic on top of ppf, I don't think there is a full concensus yet.

As @09cs said, this one is a no brainer...IF you either do the ceramic yourself (minimal cost) or, your preferred shop will do it for a fraction of the cost of paint correction plus ceramic since the polishing would not be necessary. (Film WILL polish, you just have to watch the heat.)

But it's the hydrophobic quality of ceramic that has me anxious to try it. Whether it's on the clear coat or the PPF, it's still more UV protection and shine enhancement. The easy cleaning though is a huge bonus and the reason I would recommend it regardless of whether you film or not, assuming the caveats above.

I did this due to the "Love Bug" seasons

We have the two seasons over this way too, David along with swarms of butterflies so I feel you. My first go around with film was on my '14 and I did A pillars forward, full hood, plus a ten inch strip along the leading edge of the roof. It's held up well but edges are beginning to show their age here and there.

Just don't leave that original film on for decades or you'll not only be repainting, you'll be replacing panels as I don't think you could even wet sand stubborn film off.

 

[protraxduner]

I have ZERO experience with PPF but a lifetime of experience with adhesives.....If you want them to stick.....they don't. If you don't want them to stick forever then you will never get it off. This in itself has kept me from doing it, along with the last generation of protection i see in parking lots everyday that looks yellow and cracked to hell. I KNOW the new stuff is light years ahead and understand the benefits just not worth it to me especially on a car not seeing the road much in my case.

 

[Skwibbs]

To be fair I'd never try doing ceramic, or taking off film myself. Talked with my/Tom's ppf guy, he said should come off or be replaced in about 7 years if well taken care of for it to be optimal.

 

[FreePenguin]

PPF can always be removed without paint, doesn’t matter the age. The bond at its highest bond is still like 30x less than paint to itself assuming the paint isn’t damaged.

it needs proper steam. It melts the glue,will be a mess but that can be removed with industrial remover glue crap.

i removed8 year old PPF beautifully off s car recently, made a mess w some glue but
I will always PPF over ceramic

if you use too much heat from heat gun. You can remove paint with ppf

it’s user error honestly same with steam. But it’s really not hard but can be easily done not paying attention

The issue becomes glue, it’s left on residue and it’s nasty shit. But that’s the only downfall really.

 

[FreePenguin]

fwiw I’ve only removed PPF using industrial steaming machine. It’s the proper tool for job

Always pull paint to itself and not 90* that is a big mess up too.

old stuff PPF has a tendency to tear too,it’s brittle due to sun damage. No biggie just keep tugging along. I use 3m adhesive remover the large cans

 

[kilobravo]

Donald: Steam sounds like the ticket but not many have access to that type of gear. And man, what a friggin' mess not mention all the adhesive remover, especially on a full hood or roof. And, very few can do their own film so you're back to the high dollar expense for most. I may regret my decision but I enjoy cleaning and detailing the vehicle and look forward to the slicker paint minus the dirty edges.

Film or not, definitely a personal preference.

 

[FreePenguin]

but reason I posted that was, a good reputable PPF installer, should have a steamer, I would avoid them if they don’t.

let me tell ya. Id pay a fee for professional removal.Expect $500 for removal and glue removal

but imo, small price to pay for say 8-10 years if you wanted it off.

was just googling and found PPF people removing PPF after 20 years! I didn’t know it’s been around that long, using steam. Came right off, but they didsay there was a lot of glue that had tobe removed but no paint loss

So don’t worry about the claim of bonding with paint, it can’t get as strong as the paint to metal bond, but what removes paint is damage, ie. Rust, or chips from large impacts breaking the bond and then removing the film can pull up paint with it. Can be touched up I reckon after before new PPF


and yeah dirty edges are a thing, always worth trying to pay a little more to get wrapped around edges. If they have a plotter they can make it larger to do so

 

[kilobravo]

Donald: No doubt the pro filmers know all about the steam machine, I didn't. But as you said, it doesn't remove the adhesive and I know that has to be messy.

Yes, film has been around that long but probably didn't become semi-mainstream until the last five or ten I'd say. The best news is, the film technology improved dramatically from some of the original offerings, totally eliminating the yellowing tendency and, invented the concept of self-sealing. All good stuff.

As for edges, while wrapped is certainly better, not every edge can be. Plus, even though you can easily increase the size of a piece with software and a cutter, with the dramatic increase in body curves these days, the amount of stretching required can make those adjustments moot and you wind up having to trim manually. Besides, as far as I know, most shops only use patterns for the small and difficult pieces while the large areas get a custom, manual trim.

As I said, I may regret not filming but we'll see.

 

[FreePenguin]

My friend has a corvette he ceramic for big money, and I spent my money towards PPF xpel ultimate. We actually took before photos and taking after photos next year after 1 year of abuse on highway and everyday driving to see how they compare.

he was against PPF, saying it’snot asreliable, and I have never used ceramic so will be a great comparison.

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