Carbon Wheel Experience Regarding Damage

[Tomster]

But, you don't have a clue if you've never driven on CF wheels and you will be bypassing experiences if you plan on never tracking the car.

You may not agree with him, but you should respect him. His is a hell of a driver and has first hand experience of what he talking about.

Sometimes people disagree. Just understand who you are disagreeing with.

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[kilobravo]

But, you don't have a clue if you've never driven on CF wheels and you will be bypassing experiences if you plan on never tracking the car.

You know what, FCFB? I don't have a clue about doing heart surgery so I'm obviously bypassing that experience. Hmmm..never jumped out of a perfectly good aircraft either..dang, another missed experience.

But taking my hard earned moolah to purchase a $100+k vehicle to a race track where, if I didn't kill myself, I'd surely mess up the car. Now why would I do that? Perhaps you have the opportunity or the wherewithal to risk such an expensive vehicle and if so, good for you. But we're not talking gocarts here or even 350-price range vehicles, we're talking a very, very expensive car. Some people would like to hang on to it for awhile and keep it in nice condition.

So, I'm sorry I don't have a clue about track racing but honestly, I couldn't care less.

And Tom: I respect everyone who does the same for me but dis me and you're gonna hear a reply..every time. I'm sure Billy is a wonderful person, he sure seems to be in videos, and his driving skills are well-known. None of that is in dispute. This was something that riled me and I certainly do not apologize for a thing I said.

 

[50 Deep]

Here are my personal experiences/thoughts with the CF wheels on my GT350R, and those of some customers...

In regard to the carbon wheel I can see Billy’s point of view and knowledge of the performance capability of the wheel. It has a ton of benefits on track and at the limit. For most people it really comes down to being honest about where your car going to live most of the time. Being at 10/10 ths on track or in an apex they are friggin legendary. Mall crawling with the family or bombing around town it’s not necessarily where the wheel was made to shine or withstand the world.

When I had the carbon wheels on my GT350R I noticed a huge decline in my enjoyment of the car. Here is why.....

I know that I will drive my car on the street 90% of the time, and track 10%. For fun driving around town I was always afraid of damaging the wheel and became paranoid. Hyper vigilant about other drivers and a basket case about parking. Didn’t want to drive far on the SC2 tire for fear of burning them up and dealing with a tire shop switching them out. Couldn’t drive the car safely on the R compound tire in the wet or cold as they didn’t have traction. Then I saw a buddy delaminate the weave on his carbon wheel after hitting a rock in the roadway. At $4000 a piece to replace it’s the the cost of a full set of fully forged wheels from Signature.

The icing on the cake.... the front caliper clearance is so tight that rocks or debris would get in there and damage the barrel/caliper. It’s going to be the same on the GT500.

With my Signature Wheel I doubled the caliper clearance, only gained about 3 lbs per wheel, and had a tire I could drive on year round. For that reason I have 10k miles of fun on the car and several track days.

The carbon wheel is super cool and a stud on the road course, but it’s like dating a hot girl that’s an alcoholic. It’s all good until it’s bad. Ultimately I think Ford wants these cars driven on street and track. If a new set of wheels and street friendly tires gets the cars out more then that goal is achieved. The Mustang always has been, and hopefully always will be a platform for enthusiasts to customize. We are happy to see the modding begin.

 

[BillyJRacing]

I know you're in the business of selling wheels as your livelihood and I respect that but it's apparent you didn't read the article.

The benefits to steering response, precision, communication and feel can be had far from the limit of grip. Most people can feel it at 45mph and not cornering that hard. Again, it's a huge part of what makes these cars (350R, 500Carbon, Ford GT) punch well above their weight and deliver world class handling.

You have some valid arguments for a DD, but the car loses some significant aspects that makes it a world class car. Nothing wrong with accepting that trade-off but it is a trade-off and to deny it (not saying that you are denying it, but for anyone to deny it) means you're kidding yourself.

The same goes for changing out a 350R's bespoke Cup2 with any other tire. It is really not an R anymore and in most cases, will be slower from changing out the tire. It will be for sure slower when swapping out the carbon wheels.

Again as a disclaimer, people are free to do whatever they want, customizing and personalizing a car to fit their needs, and make decisions based off of their financial positons. I'm just advocating the benefits of carbon wheels that is often misunderstood and overlooked.

 

[obspsd]

I know you're in the business of selling wheels as your livelihood and I respect that but it's apparent you didn't read the article.

The benefits to steering response, precision, communication and feel can be had far from the limit of grip. Most people can feel it at 45mph and not cornering that hard. Again, it's a huge part of what makes these cars (350R, 500Carbon, Ford GT) punch well above their weight and deliver world class handling.

You have some valid arguments for a DD, but the car loses some significant aspects that makes it a world class car. Nothing wrong with accepting that trade-off but it is a trade-off and to deny it (not saying that you are denying it, but for anyone to deny it) means you're kidding yourself.

The same goes for changing out a 350R's bespoke Cup2 with any other tire. It is really not an R anymore and in most cases, will be slower from changing out the tire. It will be for sure slower when swapping out the carbon wheels.

Again as a disclaimer, people are free to do whatever they want, customizing and personalizing a car to fit their needs, and make decisions based off of their financial positons. I'm just advocating the benefits of carbon wheels that is often misunderstood and overlooked.

Very well put Billy.

 

[PP0001]

I know you're in the business of selling wheels as your livelihood and I respect that but it's apparent you didn't read the article.

The benefits to steering response, precision, communication and feel can be had far from the limit of grip. Most people can feel it at 45mph and not cornering that hard. Again, it's a huge part of what makes these cars (350R, 500Carbon, Ford GT) punch well above their weight and deliver world class handling.

You have some valid arguments for a DD, but the car loses some significant aspects that makes it a world class car. Nothing wrong with accepting that trade-off but it is a trade-off and to deny it (not saying that you are denying it, but for anyone to deny it) means you're kidding yourself.

The same goes for changing out a 350R's bespoke Cup2 with any other tire. It is really not an R anymore and in most cases, will be slower from changing out the tire. It will be for sure slower when swapping out the carbon wheels.

Again as a disclaimer, people are free to do whatever they want, customizing and personalizing a car to fit their needs, and make decisions based off of their financial positons. I'm just advocating the benefits of carbon wheels that is often misunderstood and overlooked.

A couple of reasons why the Shelby GT350 R model separates itself from the other two remaining Pony Cars and for that matter numerous other world class HP vehicles and that is centered around the terrific foresight and implementation whereby The Ford Motor Company instituted the CF wheels and Cup 2 tires as standard OEM equipment for all of their 2 seat HP vehicles namely the 350R, 500CFTP and Ford GT.

Where there other key aspects of this world class vehicle that made it outstanding such as the FPC engine, MagneRide, CF wing and so on absolutely but the rotating mass of the wheels and tires was a key element for its terrific success.

What other automobile manufacturer has gone to that extent and has taken that type of risk on a mass production vehicle aside from the hand built Ford GT?

Certainly none that I am aware of therefore my hats off to all of the Blue Oval Team for having the balls and guts to do what no other manufacturer has done to date?

I understand, comprehend and appreciate why many enthusiasts might want to change out their CF wheels and the Cup 2 tires with respect to cost, risk of damage, wear factor, etc. but I have to agree that once those steps have been taken in order to move them out I also suggest that these vehicles are not an R anymore based on removing specific key aspects and elements that make the R model the outstanding vehicle that it is.

This scenario reminds me a great deal of my brother in law who used to go into our best burger joint in town and ordered a Deluxe Burger because of the way it tasted so good and then asked the cook to hold some of the key trimmings which made it taste so good but still elected to pay for a Deluxe Burger.

Each to their own and certainly respect all of your decisions but I personally would rather have some patina/wear and tear on my wheels and tires than replacing them with lesser quality but then again I must admit that I am somewhat different than many other Mustang enthusiasts.

 

[biminiLX]

With all due respect, Billy, not everyone who buys a Shelby plans to go to the track and frankly, I resent being told I have "no clue." I GET carbon wheels and was merely breaching the subject of carbon wheel damage.

I won't be bypassing any experiences despite no interest in road courses and I will enjoy my vehicle every bit as much as anyone else.

Well, have you driven a car with CF wheels?
If not, then yes, you fall into the ‘no clue’ category.
It’s not an insult but the reality of not experiencing the technology.
I loved the feel of my buddies 350R on and off track with the CF wheels; I believe a big part of that was from the wheels.
Gotta be tough to overcome the anxiety of Street use tho, I wish there was a warranty deal on them.
-J

 

[Tomster]

Take the wheels off, put them back on. This isn't a permanent mod folks.

Just sayin'

 

[50 Deep]

I know you're in the business of selling wheels as your livelihood and I respect that but it's apparent you didn't read the article.

The benefits to steering response, precision, communication and feel can be had far from the limit of grip. Most people can feel it at 45mph and not cornering that hard. Again, it's a huge part of what makes these cars (350R, 500Carbon, Ford GT) punch well above their weight and deliver world class handling.

You have some valid arguments for a DD, but the car loses some significant aspects that makes it a world class car. Nothing wrong with accepting that trade-off but it is a trade-off and to deny it (not saying that you are denying it, but for anyone to deny it) means you're kidding yourself.

The same goes for changing out a 350R's bespoke Cup2 with any other tire. It is really not an R anymore and in most cases, will be slower from changing out the tire. It will be for sure slower when swapping out the carbon wheels.

Again as a disclaimer, people are free to do whatever they want, customizing and personalizing a car to fit their needs, and make decisions based off of their financial positons. I'm just advocating the benefits of carbon wheels that is often misunderstood and overlooked.

The wheel gig for me isn’t my livelihood. I just do this for fun. With that said, its pretty clear you have strong ties to Carbon Revolution, which is cool too. Also noted my statement was not in relation to your article, only to my own observations and to those of enthusiasts I worked with. Your knowledge on the technical side is unmatched, but contacts with everyday drivers of these cars around the country is really my area of expertise.

You are operating on a level that the majority of enthusiasts don’t live at, which is precise perceptions of the cars capabilities. Lap after lap, data log after data log has given you intimate knowledge of the car. For the average consumer their cars aren’t spending the majority of their time on track, nor do they have the level of skill you possess to quantify all the changes you can. The benefits of being able to use the car more often and with less worry is a greater attribute than the performance gain seen from the wheels being on the car. Telling your wife or kids you cant take the 100k Mustang to cars and coffee today because its too cold is real life. Making that 45mph lane change faster than any other car on the road gets a bit lost.

If you feel that removing the carbon wheels from the car somehow degrades all of its capabilities then that is a personal feeling you carry. I don’t feel the car is any less special, and know that as a whole it is still engineered to be much more than the sum of 4 parts.

Keeping carbon wheels on the car is awesome on track, but everyday driving they wouldn’t be my first choice.

 

[Tomster]

You know what, FCFB? I don't have a clue about doing heart surgery so I'm obviously bypassing that experience. Hmmm..never jumped out of a perfectly good aircraft either..dang, another missed experience.

But taking my hard earned moolah to purchase a $100+k vehicle to a race track where, if I didn't kill myself, I'd surely mess up the car. Now why would I do that? Perhaps you have the opportunity or the wherewithal to risk such an expensive vehicle and if so, good for you. But we're not talking gocarts here or even 350-price range vehicles, we're talking a very, very expensive car. Some people would like to hang on to it for awhile and keep it in nice condition.

So, I'm sorry I don't have a clue about track racing but honestly, I couldn't care less.

And Tom: I respect everyone who does the same for me but dis me and you're gonna hear a reply..every time. I'm sure Billy is a wonderful person, he sure seems to be in videos, and his driving skills are well-known. None of that is in dispute. This was something that riled me and I certainly do not apologize for a thing I said.

Um, I think I quoted fastcarfanboy, not you.

This topic is quickly getting out of hand. Geesh, its almost like the tech pack fiasco...

You will see me at the track in December with both CF and Forged.

You guys just go on and bicker.

 

[kilobravo]

Um, I think I quoted fastcarfanboy, not you.

Then you have my apologies, Tom..obviously, I thought otherwise, my mistake.

 

[Houston Kid]

This come to mind. Lol. But I’m the kind of guy that says damn the torpedoes, send it. I drive em like I stole them and fully accept the consequences of what happens while driving. If I were to get a CFTP, the wheels would stay on but that’s just me. To each their own. Your car. Your wheels. Do what you want.

 

[1stMustang-GT500]

This come to mind. Lol. But I’m the kind of guy that says damn the torpedoes, send it. I drive em like I stole them and fully accept the consequences of what happens while driving. If I were to get a CFTP, the wheels would stay on but that’s just me. To each their own. Your car. Your wheels. Do what you want.

I go back and forth, keep miles low and treat her like a trophy. Other side is I'm paying a bunch of money for this car, got to get her in the sun and see what she's got.

 

[BillyJRacing]

The wheel gig for me isn’t my livelihood. I just do this for fun. With that said, its pretty clear you have strong ties to Carbon Revolution, which is cool too. Also noted my statement was not in relation to your article, only to my own observations and to those of enthusiasts I worked with. Your knowledge on the technical side is unmatched, but contacts with everyday drivers of these cars around the country is really my area of expertise.

You are operating on a level that the majority of enthusiasts don’t live at, which is precise perceptions of the cars capabilities. Lap after lap, data log after data log has given you intimate knowledge of the car. For the average consumer their cars aren’t spending the majority of their time on track, nor do they have the level of skill you possess to quantify all the changes you can. The benefits of being able to use the car more often and with less worry is a greater attribute than the performance gain seen from the wheels being on the car. Telling your wife or kids you cant take the 100k Mustang to cars and coffee today because its too cold is real life. Making that 45mph lane change faster than any other car on the road gets a bit lost.

If you feel that removing the carbon wheels from the car somehow degrades all of its capabilities then that is a personal feeling you carry. I don’t feel the car is any less special, and know that as a whole it is still engineered to be much more than the sum of 4 parts.

Keeping carbon wheels on the car is awesome on track, but everyday driving they wouldn’t be my first choice.

The problem with your previous post, and this one, is that you continue to spread misinformation about carbon wheels either intentionally (because selling AL wheels is your part-time business) or unintentionally and carelessly (because you apparently didn't read my article or read my posts). If you did read my reply, you would understand that:

The benefit of carbon wheels can be felt any time you are turning the steering wheel at speeds above 45mph, and you do not need to be anywhere near the limit of handling, or even corning hard to feel the difference in steering feel, communication, feedback, and precision.

Your constant comments that someone needs to be driving at the limit, or 'making that 45mph lane change faster than any other car" is outright false and must be either intentional or out of your own lack of personal experience and inability to read my comments.

It's not that I "feel" like removing the carbon wheels "somehow" degrades the car's overall capability and many other subjective aspects of the driving experience. It absolutely does.

It's like removing the 526hp FPC 5.2L engine in favor of a 460hp CPC 5.0L engine because of the fear of some Voodoo engines having problems.

Will it hurt performance? Yes.
Will it take away from the subjective sound that makes the GT350 special? Yes.
Will it no longer be a >100hp/L incredible engine thats a key part of what makes a GT350 special? Absolutely.
Can a GT350 owner do it? Of course, it's their car and they can do whatever they want.
Will it still be a "true GT350" - I don't think so.

How many GT350R's are out there? How many have problems and what % of the owners is that?

As I said before, if you live in an area with craters for pot holes, then daily driving a GT350R probably isn't the best choice in general, and running a cheaper set of wheels has some validity. But in most of the country, this isn't a problem. If you don't know how to drive and constantly curb wheels, those are inexpensive repairs and you're going to do that to your AL wheels too, which will need to be repaired. It's not a good excuse but whatever makes someone have less stress probably isn't a bad thing.

Overall i'm just trying to stop the spread of misinformation and ignorance on carbon wheels. Judging by this thread, there's still a lot of education that needs to be spread throughout the community (especially of carbon-wheel GT350R/GT500/GT owners).

Anyone can do whatever they want with their cars. Just don't spread misinformation that you need to be driving fast, hard, or pushing the limits to feel the benefit of carbon wheels, because that's completely false. Read the article to learn more:

https://motoiq.com/tested-carbon-revolution-carbon-fiber-wheels/

 

[PP0001]

The problem with your previous post, and this one, is that you continue to spread misinformation about carbon wheels either intentionally (because selling AL wheels is your part-time business) or unintentionally and carelessly (because you apparently didn't read my article or read my posts). If you did read my reply, you would understand that:

The benefit of carbon wheels can be felt any time you are turning the steering wheel at speeds above 45mph, and you do not need to be anywhere near the limit of handling, or even corning hard to feel the difference in steering feel, communication, feedback, and precision.

Your constant comments that someone needs to be driving at the limit, or 'making that 45mph lane change faster than any other car" is outright false and must be either intentional or out of your own lack of personal experience and inability to read my comments.

It's not that I "feel" like removing the carbon wheels "somehow" degrades the car's overall capability and many other subjective aspects of the driving experience. It absolutely does.

It's like removing the 526hp FPC 5.2L engine in favor of a 460hp CPC 5.0L engine because of the fear of some Voodoo engines having problems.

Will it hurt performance? Yes.
Will it take away from the subjective sound that makes the GT350 special? Yes.
Will it no longer be a >100hp/L incredible engine thats a key part of what makes a GT350 special? Absolutely.
Can a GT350 owner do it? Of course, it's their car and they can do whatever they want.
Will it still be a "true GT350" - I don't think so.

How many GT350R's are out there? How many have problems and what % of the owners is that?

As I said before, if you live in an area with craters for pot holes, then daily driving a GT350R probably isn't the best choice in general, and running a cheaper set of wheels has some validity. But in most of the country, this isn't a problem. If you don't know how to drive and constantly curb wheels, those are inexpensive repairs and you're going to do that to your AL wheels too, which will need to be repaired. It's not a good excuse but whatever makes someone have less stress probably isn't a bad thing.

Overall i'm just trying to stop the spread of misinformation and ignorance on carbon wheels. Judging by this thread, there's still a lot of education that needs to be spread throughout the community (especially of carbon-wheel GT350R/GT500/GT owners).

Anyone can do whatever they want with their cars. Just don't spread misinformation that you need to be driving fast, hard, or pushing the limits to feel the benefit of carbon wheels, because that's completely false. Read the article to learn more:

https://motoiq.com/tested-carbon-revolution-carbon-fiber-wheels/

Certainly appreciate your candid, detailed and intellectual responses and have to say after owning Mustangs from all 6 generations I have learned that everyone Mustang enthusiast has their own sets of agenda as to whether they modify and keep their Mustang bone stock.

For me I am a purist in all senses but must admit that back in the 60's and early 70's I did modify and/or replace parts in my Cougar or Mustangs but that did not last long but certainly respect and understand the mindset of those that continue down that path.

Personally I will never give any thought to replacing the Cup 2 tires or replacing the CF wheels as they are much too integral to the overall feel and responsiveness of these great cars.

From a production standpoint, Ford has produced ~3000 GT350R models from the 2015 MY up to and including the 2019 MY and suggest that the 2020 MY will not have a low production number.

Those production numbers include all pre-production and exec company R models as well and suggest that the overall % of owners that have experienced issues with either Cup 2 tires and/or CF wheels is very minute.

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