Can a vert get close to a roofed car in handling with add ons?

[pardoneo]

Tim, thanks for the information.
Still wondering if the strut tower brace is the one that comes standard on US PP1 cars? I would imagine it is.
If so, they only adding the jacking rails and possibly some under carriage braces would be all that would be needed if you wanted to get a fairly balanced feel.
Would be nice if the Pilot Sports were an option on the car from the factory..

Actually in EU we have parts of the US PP1 from stock, such as the black upper K brace that comes with the upper strut tower on US PP1 but without the actual strut, so when you get the strut the installation is precisely 4 bolts.

As for the model of the strut tower, is not exactly that of the US PP1 because it is wider (and maybe I guess heavier) as again it is the one that the GT350 has, but I do not think that the design will bring actual benefits vs. the OEM GT US PP1 strut tower. It’s just for the looks! Both bring the same benefits.

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[Tim_]

What tyres are you currently running? For us in the UK the P Zeros are gone after around 7,000 miles so changing to Michelins doesn't take long, they're to within $8/tyre too for us so a no brainer.

There's an under brace which is highly recommended, two bolts and it's fitted kind of thing, gets really good reviews.

 

[pardoneo]

What tyres are you currently running? For us in the UK the P Zeros are gone after around 7,000 miles so changing to Michelins doesn't take long, they're to within $8/tyre too for us so a no brainer.

There's an under brace which is highly recommended, two bolts and it's fitted kind of thing, gets really good reviews.

I am running on PS4 (without the S). Could not be more happy to get rid of the pirellis

I have the 4-point under K-brace from Steeda. Do you mean the 2-point?

 

[OLdchuck]

Pardoneo,
Why would someone want the two point when the 4 point obviously will give more support?

 

[pardoneo]

Pardoneo,
Why would someone want the two point when the 4 point obviously will give more support?

Good question!
Go hard or go home.
Maybe price (2-point is $70 cheaper). Also, 4 point is not compatible with non-oem headers or Ecoboost with A10 gearbox. I will not say weight because it will not move the needle.

 

[OLdchuck]

I know for some price point is important but given the difference in application and obvious additional support it seems like a no brainer Unless as you stated you have headers or A10 which some have. I always look at my end goal and for a vert want All the additional rigidity I can get. What I have now is extremely planted and stable in corners so will do everything I can to make the Mustang as good as possible without giving up any NVH.

 

[Rapid Red]

Yes, but the weight penalty is hard to ignore. Plus there will always be some cowl shake. If you want a V8 convertible that doesn't weigh two tons, you need to look at a Vette or Jaguar F-Type. But, my favorite, which requires thinking out of the box a little, is a 2003 - 2008 Viper. They make tons of power, don't weigh as much as others and are low tech, so maintenance and repair costs are low.

I came from a Porsche 997.2 cabriolet and a Mustang feels like a boat next to a Porsche.

Of course a Porsche is just a VW sports car that's no suprise .

 

[Rapid Red]

DT,
Thanks for the in-depth assessment. One of the reasons I asked about the tune in the A10 is because finding a vert, with PP&MR with a manual is going to be a hard find. Especially if you start filtering certain colors. If I found a nice car with everything but manual I wanted to know that I could improve it with a tune. Being used to the PDK, a TC tranny found in most cars is just not what I want.
Do you know anything about the performance add on pack Ford is now selling for around $1275 which adds 19 hp and TQ and keeps warranty. Ford says it changes the mapping in the A10 for more spirited driving . If that is the case might be an option. Have not talked to anyone who has commented on the A10 with it.

Again thanks for helping me out with your info. It was indeed useful. Hope all is good in N Florida. Have spent a lot of time in Central, NE and NW Florida. Just moved out 8 mts ago.
Stay Safe,
Chuck

That's the right price for the HP bump. Roush CAI and soft tune 1200 and some change. Few more ponies @ the rear wheels. Just saying 19 - 25 HP bump that price is ballpark.

 

[OLdchuck]

Rapid Red,
You are correct in that everything is built to a price point so given your statement one could argue that a Mustang is just a dressed up Pinto or Fiesta. It is hard to compare a Porsche and a Mustang in build quality and price point. Vehicle to vehicle there is over $30 grand difference in even basic models. However, we all get cars for a specific reason. The Mustang brings certain qualities to the table as well as a Porsche. Will not get into which is better as that is up to the owner to decide for him or herself. Bair14 just made a statement of opinion after owning both.

 

[Lorne34]

As an owner of both a GT coupe and GT Convertible I thought I would add my thoughts. Both the coupe and vert felt big and heavy in the premium version, steering was numb at times. Both were 2016-17 non-pp vehicles, so I would imaging that the 2018-19 chassis has improved things greatly. I test drove a 2018 coupe and vert and both seemed tighter and more nimble. On the positive side the difference between the coupe and vert in terms of rigidity was closer that I thought it would be. The extra bracing and strut tower brace really help ed keep the car composed.
I would say your best bet to achieve the coupe type performance would be the PP with Magnaride as well as BMR G track brace.

 

[OLdchuck]

Lorne,
Thanks for the comparison since you have both you are in a position to speak to the subject.
You said both felt big and heavy. What are you comparing those feeling to? I noticed you now have a GT 350 and you could be comparing it to that. At least one person has compared the GT to a Porsche 997.2 and said the same thing.
I would look at the GT350 but would really like a vert.

 

[Lorne34]

Lorne,
Thanks for the comparison since you have both you are in a position to speak to the subject.
You said both felt big and heavy. What are you comparing those feeling to? I noticed you now have a GT 350 and you could be comparing it to that. At least one person has compared the GT to a Porsche 997.2 and said the same thing.
I would look at the GT350 but would really like a vert.

.
It's just the dynamics of the car, it's not good or bad, but it's a reality. The car is heavy and the V8 Coyote engine makes the front end feel very heavy in regards to handling. The magneride and some of the suspension bits improved this based upon my limited test driving of the 2018+ Model year. Yes, the GT350 feels much lighter, smaller and more easily navigated. A lot of work went into the 350 to create that even with a 5.2 liter V8. So in comparing the 350 to the Coyote V8 there is a significant difference. But even before I had the 350 I felt the car was front end heavy, even more so with the Vert. Some people really don't mind this and use the car for "grand touring" and back roads where that feeling diminishes some. I didn't like the large cowl on the hood of the 2015-17 either as it added to the feeling of a massive front end.
If you get a chance to drive either the 4 cyl eco boost or even a pre-2108 v6 you'll know what i mean. Even Jay Leno expressed this in the video below and I tend to agree with him. Watch the first 10 minutes, and then You can skip to the section were they are test driving the 350 and he has a conversation with the Ford engineer about his experience with the ecoboost and the v8.
For me, the decision to go from the Vert to the 350 was not an easy decision, there were a lot of factors involved. I loved the driving experience of the open air vert, but in Wisconsin the weather did not afford a lot of days where the weather was perfect. Purist don't care and will drive it top down with the heaters on in 40 degree weather. I didn't want to do that and did not like the top up experience in the vert, plus the looks with the top up just turned me off every time I looked at it (sorry, my opinion). I decided to go after the 350 which was the car I had originally wanted in the first place. The crazy ADM went away and I was able to swing it. So far it's been great and everything I would have hoped for.
If I had the extra $ and garage space I would own a vert also ...no questions asked...I would buy a used model and it would spend most of it's life with the top down and be driven on weekends and road trips up north. I may still do that at some point. If i had to do it again I would get a 2018+ with PP, A10, Magnaride and the Active Exhaust... the ability to switch the exhaust note is a game changer in both my 350 and even more so in a vert. I didn't like the 2017 lame exhaust, but everything else i tried was too loud with the top down.. sometimes you just want to turn it off, listen to music and cruise. The 2018+ model year allows you to do that...There are certain days that I miss the Vert.
.

 

[OLdchuck]

Lorne,
Thanks for the assessment and the video. I had seen that before but not really paid attention to the comments about the heavy front end. Make senses given the design of the car and weight of the engine. Horsing the front end into the corners would be noticed as I am currently used to an 800 lb lighter mid engine and the front end is light and very responsive. Would take some getting used to. I do agree that the Mustang GT would preform better as a Grant tourer than a corner carver. Its' market is more at the touring person who wants a daily driver. Do like the GT 350 as have read many write-ups on it however as I said it is not a vert and heard it tramlines quite a bit and need to keep a steady hand on the wheel. Would not be surprised with its' track suspension set-up and large tires.
I will however drive several GT's before I commit to the GT. I do love a V8 sound over the turbo 4. If they made a 450 hp turbo 6 that sounded like the V8 may be interested but then it would most likely equal the V8 in weight.
Appreciate all your feedback and the vid. Always watch Leno's Garage.

 

[Lorne34]

Lorne,
Thanks for the assessment and the video. I had seen that before but not really paid attention to the comments about the heavy front end. Make senses given the design of the car and weight of the engine. Horsing the front end into the corners would be noticed as I am currently used to an 800 lb lighter mid engine and the front end is light and very responsive. Would take some getting used to. I do agree that the Mustang GT would preform better as a Grant tourer than a corner carver. Its' market is more at the touring person who wants a daily driver. Do like the GT 350 as have read many write-ups on it however as I said it is not a vert and heard it tramlines quite a bit and need to keep a steady hand on the wheel. Would not be surprised with its' track suspension set-up and large tires.
I will however drive several GT's before I commit to the GT. I do love a V8 sound over the turbo 4. If they made a 450 hp turbo 6 that sounded like the V8 may be interested but then it would most likely equal the V8 in weight.
Appreciate all your feedback and the vid. Always watch Leno's Garage.

.
The GT's are an incredible value and a 'modders" dream as the aftermarket supply is endless. The v8 sound it hard to pass up, which is why i never considered the 4cyl... I think it's a fantastic platform, it's just a matter of the driving feel and experience you are looking for.. The vert is spacious and lots of trunk room which can be a plus vs a miata or hard top convertible that folds in... I've found that purchasing performance vehicles is really an art in and of itself..expensive too! LOL
In regards to tramlining with the 350, it was very noticeable with the original cup2 tires so I replaced them with the regular Michelin Super Sports and it reduced dramatically. A less aggressive alignment and a set of Michelin PS4's would eliminate it all together. I plan on tracking the car at some point to see if I want to pursue that, so sticking with the larger tire setup for now. I did a 3-hour drive up to Lacrosse WI last week and had very little stress or issues holding unto the road.
Good luck with your shopping..

 

[OLdchuck]

Lorne, Thanks again. Had three Mustangs the last being a 2012 Coyote Gen 1 with manual so realize they are a good value and highly modable. Since I do not track and most of my driving is in nice weather on country roads perhaps the lack of corning ability will not be an issue. Will see if I can appreciate the GT for what it is. Will be interesting to see how this search turns out.

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