Can a vert get close to a roofed car in handling with add ons?

[OLdchuck]

Had had mustangs in the past: a factory '66 in '68, a custom built '66 in '17 and a 2012 S197 GT with manual. Lately I have missed the torque of an American V8 and started looking at the mustang again. Presently have another vehicle which corners like its' on rails and is a convertible. If I make a move in the next year will get a vert as I do like the open top feeling on nice days.
If I got a GT convertible with PP1 and magnaRide could it be made to handle close to a roofed car with braces etc and still give a fairly compliant ride?

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[Balr14]

Yes, but the weight penalty is hard to ignore. Plus there will always be some cowl shake. If you want a V8 convertible that doesn't weigh two tons, you need to look at a Vette or Jaguar F-Type. But, my favorite, which requires thinking out of the box a little, is a 2003 - 2008 Viper. They make tons of power, don't weigh as much as others and are low tech, so maintenance and repair costs are low.

I came from a Porsche 997.2 cabriolet and a Mustang feels like a boat next to a Porsche.

 

[OLdchuck]

Bair14,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Interesting suggestions. I realize the weight penalty is impossible to overcome.
Going to the GT vert I wiould be adding approx 800 lbs compared to what I currently drive. That is a bunch to push around a corner. The GT was not made as a vert so i think it will always have some cowl shake but curious how much you could improve it. If I went for the Vette would look at the C6 as not a C7 fan. The Viper is a unique choice. Not sure if it would be as smooth and quiet as I or my wife would like. Been 12-15 years since I have been in a Viper but I remember they were very raw and a no compromise performance machine but was planted.

 

[OLdchuck]

Bair14,
One quick one: How do you see your Mustang compared to the 335?
I understand your comment about feeling like a boat. I know I will never get the precise razor sharp handling I have in the 981GTS but curious if I will miss the P after its' gone if I decide to make a move. I know I can always go back but sometimes as I age just like to experience different experiences .

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Keep in mind about the weight, that's it's not a huge difference in a GT Coupe vs. a GT Convertible, documented at 186 lbs more of the convertible - plus, Convertibles only come in Premium, which is bit heavier. I know there was a thread where a base Coupe was compared to a Premium with the PP, and there was 105 lbs difference, i.e., the coupe to convertible weight difference is pretty minor, all things considered.

If you want notably improved handling plus way better compliance, PP + MR is stellar, I can't imagine not having both (having also had a PP '16 convertible), and the PP also includes some extra bracing (in additional to several other perks). You know, assuming you don't want to buy base and start swapping springs, swaybars, etc.

 

[Balr14]

I had a 94 Viper and they were very raw and uncompromising, it got really warm and the side pipes were usually hot. But, the 2003 and newer are a lot more civilized and comfortable, plus a lot more powerful. My Mustang feels large and heavy compared to my 335i, which it is. I'd say the ride and comfort levels are comparable. The Mustang can accelerate quicker, but I think that is due to the A10 transmission versus the 335 6 speed manual. It's hard to beat that A10 for response. It's nearly as good as the PDK on my 997.2. For cruising, I like the Mustang. For serious driving, I like the 335.

As MaskedRacerX noted, PP1 will get you about as far as you would want to go with a convertible and still maintain a decent ride.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

@Balr14 Is your '18 convertible a Perf Package car? With MR?

Those two options, combined with Active Exhaust, is just transformative to the driving experience, both cruising and "serious" (I mean, what you can do reasonably safe on the street).

I've had highly tuned cars, a Z06, an S2000, a Z3 (a few BMWs ...), other late[r] model Vettes setup with T1 suspension, etc., and from that context, I think it's stellar. Mine is also tuned, a few intake/exhaust mods, and the tuning is also on the transmission, it's an A10, so it's nasty in sport mode

 

[OLdchuck]

Masked/Bair,
Thanks for the insight. Interesting about the weight differences. If there is not that much weight penalty than the cornering difference must be due to lack of structural rigidity due to the lack of a roof. I agree about a nice cruiser as our cruiser now is a E Class MB but I drive a smaller truck when not nice as the P does not see rain or bad weather.
Bair, Interesting what you said about the A10. I had heard it was great when accelerating but "hunts" for gears and not precise when normal driving. I wanted a manual on the P but the CPO I got was PDK and it IS the best self shifting tranny I have ever seen or felt. The lack of a TC is very evident. Still miss rowing my own at times but the PDK always knows which gear to be in and takes no effort to downshift. I had heard the GT is much more engaging with a manual as I do not drive much in traffic and mostly cruise on nice days on country roads. The 1/2 second in times is not important to me.
Masked, I would look for a loaded premium PP&MR as like to tinker but being older limit my time under the cars.

 

[OLdchuck]

Bair,
Did you find a big difference in the A10 after the tune?

Masked,
Sorry about the lack of Paragraphs. I was rambling a bit..

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Bair,
Did you find a big difference in the A10 after the tune?

Masked,
Sorry about the lack of Paragraphs. I was rambling a bit..

Oh, hahaha, that wasn't directed at you (and it's a different thread), that was at the original poster from that other thread.

I don't know if he's tuned or not, I am, and it really depends on the tuner, but they can do some amazing things with the already fabulous A10. FWIW, I came from (literally) decades of driving only manuals, a number of cars I owned were manual only, but I wanted something the wife could drive, that would be easy to drive fast, convenient, etc., and the A10 was an order-of-magnitude beyond previous automatic implementations.

I was actually running Ethanol for a while, couldn't quite get it dialed in, so now running just a straight high performance 93 tune, that includes the transmission tweaks.

The mix of the A10 + the 3rd Gen Coyote is really perfect, and with the PP cars, you get a 3.55 (TORSEN) rear end, so it's extremely perky.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

BTW, @OLdchuck, since BMW is being discussed,, I find this really loaded GT, especially with the PP, Magneride, AR, the B&O audio, and the 401A which includes the incredibly slick full LCD dash, upgraded leather, etc., easily on par with an M cabriolet. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a bit of better materials here and there, but talk about a car that had a MASSIVE weight impact, coupe vs. convertible, plus the near useless trunk with the top down, and it's not even in the ballpark when it comes to engine sound (it's not even the same sport ...)

 

[OLdchuck]

DT,
Thanks for the in-depth assessment. One of the reasons I asked about the tune in the A10 is because finding a vert, with PP&MR with a manual is going to be a hard find. Especially if you start filtering certain colors. If I found a nice car with everything but manual I wanted to know that I could improve it with a tune. Being used to the PDK, a TC tranny found in most cars is just not what I want.
Do you know anything about the performance add on pack Ford is now selling for around $1275 which adds 19 hp and TQ and keeps warranty. Ford says it changes the mapping in the A10 for more spirited driving . If that is the case might be an option. Have not talked to anyone who has commented on the A10 with it.

Again thanks for helping me out with your info. It was indeed useful. Hope all is good in N Florida. Have spent a lot of time in Central, NE and NW Florida. Just moved out 8 mts ago.
Stay Safe,
Chuck

 

[MaskedRacerX]

@OLdchuck

Yeah, I'd say convertibles have always been more skewed towards automatics, you know, it's a "cruiser", etc., but with the advent of the A10, lots of manual only folks are really changing their mind. Plus, in MY15-17, the PP option was only in manual, so I think that sold a lot of additional manuals (my '16, was a GT convertible, PP, manual), now with it being in the automatic (A10), there's no choice, i.e., auto __or__ PP.

Now, I've driven a number of DCT cars (under whatever name it's branded, PDK, whatever), Porsche, GT-R, BMW, and it's a bit better on track I suspect (see the GT500, Corvette C8), but for 99.9% of street use, the A10 is excellent, and like I said, it's definitely "not your father's automatic"

There's a couple of threads of people getting the new Ford Power Pack, a few folks have installed it already, I'm sure there will be some end owner feedback regarding the A10 changes soon enough. It's nice it has a warranty, well, it shorts the drivetrain warranty a bit, you'll have to read the exact details, but it revises it to a 3/36.

Thanks for the positive words, yeah, it's pretty OK, I work from home anyway (software engineer), our little G easily transitioned to virtual school, in fact, she's opting to switch to it permanently, they offered it to select students, she kicks ass in her classes, so she's all good (like next year she's taking real Algebra I in 7th grade, she'll be earning high school credit soon).

You stay safe too!

 

[Balr14]

I have not had a tune done yet, but looking at the Ford Power Pack. I believe my Mustang is the premium model with 401A. I got a chance to take a 2018 PP1 convertible home for a weekend, before I bought this one. But, it got sold before I was able to work out a deal... just bad luck. I think hunting for the right gear is just a function of having 10 gears. The more gears you have, the smaller the range for each gear. I typically drive with the shifter in S mode, which tends to use just 7 gears. No hunting.

My wife and I are both working from home during this Covid-19 crisis. I think we will both retire when this is over, as we are only working because we are needed. But, this crisis is giving us an idea of how much we don't need 3 or 4 cars.

 

[Tim_]

The Mustang was always designed as a coupe and a convertible, hence the weight penalty is small and the additional bracing is designed as bolt on for the factory.

I have the cowl shake on mine (PP, UK car) but we don’t get the strut tower brace as standard (we do get the upper K brace and everything else from the performance pack as standard). I found fitting the strut brace (which US PP cars have anyway) and Steeda jacking rails made a big improvement, that lot weighs about 12kgs or something so negligible really. There’s a lower brace which is thought of very highly, bolts straight on and doesn’t weigh or cost a lot, owners report a decent improvement from that too.

I wouldn’t say the convertible handles like a boat on our narrower broken up twisty UK roads, it’s definitely a sports/GT. You wouldn’t notice handling differences to a coupe on the public roads, you’d need to go on a track day.

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