Can a vert get close to a roofed car in handling with add ons?

[OLdchuck]

Tim,
Thanks for the reply from the UK. Interesting that the European cars do not come with the strut brace. Wonder why?
I realize that coming from razor sharp handling will be a big change but as has been said that the GT is more of a true Grand Tourer and handles like one. I tend to exploit the sharp corners in the P because that is where it excels. With the Mustang, it excels in other areas which can be just as satisfying for some. I will never track either car so will be restricted to what one can do safely on public roads.
How would you assess the noise level in the convertible compared to the coupe?
In some cars such as the Boxster and Corvette the convertibles are actually quieter than the coupe or hardtop models.
Seems that the hardtops amplify the road and tire noise and it tends to bounce off the metal or fiberglass roof..

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[Tim_]

The brace wasn’t available in RHD form in time for the S550 being exported to us, it’s now available through the dealers with a couple of minor tweaks to make it fit the right hand drive bodies so we can add that to complete the PP we otherwise get as standard on our cars.

I get your point about the handling but it wasn’t until I was following mine in a hot hatch (probably the fastest point to point cars when travelling cross country on UK roads) that I realised I was working quite hard to keep up with the Mustang which was just driving normally. Getting it onto familiar twisty roads and I found the Mustang to be too competent, a little floaty at times, but it was carrying far more speed with surprisingly little effort. It was so good it wasn’t as enjoyable as flogging a less capable car down the same road at lower speeds

The convertible top is interesting, some frequencies such as passing trucks come right through as do some road surface types but other than that it’s quieter than a coupe and there’s absolutely no wind noise or drafts, get it on a well tarmac’d surface so there’s virtually no tyre noise and it’s one of the quieter cars I’ve owned. I actually wanted a coupe but the convertible swayed me because of the quality of the roof, plus when the roof is down it still feels like a special place to be when you’re just sat in traffic whereas a coupe could just be any other car until you get chance to drive it properly and there’s not much chance of that in the UK any more.

 

[OLdchuck]

Tim,
Thanks for the in-depth assessment. That is about what I thought about road and traffic noise but good to know and not assume. Also, interesting about the handling. I know the GT350 handles very well for its' weight but it also tramlines on some roads which would take it out of my wants. I know that when you make a car "road comfortable" you usually give up some of the handling. I also understand that with enough money you can change or offset that assessment but do not want to spend twice the amount to get the ultimate handler. Will look hard at the Mustang over the next year as I am in no hurry. My P has 3.5years of warranty left so do not have to worry about anything very expensive happening for a while. It will also give me time to drive several as the virus keeps most of us from venturing out too far.
Thanks and enjoy the vert in Sunny UK.
Chuck

 

[Tim_]

I had a very different buying approach to you, we’ve never had the Mustang as an official UK car so all of the ones over here are private or small business imports with no warranty and often questionable history so it’s been important to research the seller and the car. Prices of the classics have also gone up from when I was a youngster who wanted one and although not out of reach the S550 fixed a lot of the problems and provided a great car to boot.

I test drove a lot of Mustangs in different specs and that changed my mind from a coupe, V8, manual to a convertible, V8, auto. The auto is because of a left knee issue which makes driving a manual in traffic torture for my partner. I even hired a V6 in America for over two weeks to see what it was like to live with one and based on that I’d have had a V6 in a heartbeat but that motor was never sold in the UK. following that I tested a V8, a coupe, manuals and Ecoboosts. If I’d have only driven an Ecoboost I’d have been very happy with that as a Mustang but because I’d driven everything I made a better choice and I’d recommend anyone else looking test drives as much as they can before buying theirs also.

Happy hunting, I traded a car I was going to keep for my Mustang and the Mustang is here to stay. I will also try and buy my old car back (or a version of it) when I can get it approved by the boss to make my perfect three car garage again!

 

[Balr14]

I have driven manual transmissions for 61 years. My BMW is manual. My GT is A10 and that was the main reason I bought a Mustang. I would not trade the A10 for any other transmission. It doesn't shift quite as quick as a dual clutch, but the difference is hardly worth noticing. The A10 is a lot less likely to break and it is quite entertaining, because it has so many modes.

 

[OLdchuck]

Tim,
Very interesting to hear of the different car buying options in different countries. I had never thought of the Mustang of being difficult to obtain. Here they are so common it is hard to look at a pack of cars without seeing one. They are the most modded car out there. I agree about the old classics. I had a '66 convertible built from the ground up and cost more to build than a new GT500 but older classics are still fairly common fairly cheap for those wanting to take the challenge of a build. Am also leaning toward the manual as I also will be the only driver and as as described below.

Bair14,
If I make the move I am still torn between the manual and A10. I am used to the PDK and have NO issues with how that shifts or how seamlessly it is always in the right gear without hunting but there are times when a manual would be nice although I know the dual clutch and A10 is faster. I have heard numerous complaints of the A10 shifting hard, hunting endlessly for the right gear as well as many articles that say the A10 is just not as engaging while driving . I have also heard of lawsuits for numerous issues in the A10 namely in the F150 which is essentially the same transmission. Have also heard from folks on this forum that say the correct amount of fluid and a tune will make a huge difference. I also believe that only a few percentage of these have likely caused issues. Most issues in a manual can be easily fixed with swap out equipment but not so in an A10. If I used the car as a "daily" my decision would be easier but as a weekend car on country roads my needs are slightly different so I tend to be leaning to the manual. My wife loves to ride but has no desire to drive whatever I have so I will be the only driver. However, a pre-owned car outfitted exactly the way I want will be very hard to find in manual. I have thought about ordering new but there is a very large depreciation on Mustangs the first year so hate to loose that amount for a new car...Being older, I have learned to be patient so have time to decide..

 

[Balr14]

This is getting pretty far off topic, but the biggest issue with the PDK was it could not be repaired and replacement cost upward of $15k. There have been a number of incidents of electronic failures with the PDK, all causing transmission replacement. That is why I sold my 997.2. If I bought another Porsche, I'd get an extended warranty. I'm still deciding between a 991 and a Vette.

Depreciation on a Mustang is awful, regardless of age. I figure I will replace my 2018 GT in another 2 years when the drive train warranty expires. I'll probably just give it to one of my kids, because it won't be worth crap.

 

[barron64]

Had a track day last year with my PP1, 6sp manual vert...didn’t notice anything negatively affecting handling.

 

[OLdchuck]

Bair14,
Since I am the original poster I do not mind deviating from the topic as it is all relevant for purchase purposes.
I priced the PDK if Porsche does it and it was around $23,000. I do agree and IF mine did not have another 3.5 years I don't think I would keep it. A P out of warranty is just too much upkeep for me. Given my 3.5 years of coverage I can look for a bit. I let someone take a $26 grand hit on my car with only 3,400 miles for a 2016. That is one reason for a manual Mustang as they are easy to repair and not very spendy as parts are everywhere. Do not want to price an A10.
The choice between a 991 and a vette for me would depend on price of the 991 and as you said warranty. If it was a CPO with full or close to full warranty than it is the better car hands down but bang for buck a vette is hard to beat. Not a fan of the C8 and the C7 in auto form has TQ issues which are well documented as well as cracked rims on the GS and wide body cars. Not a fan of 4 cyl ECO mode on the C7 autos as you can not turn it off without a tune. The manuals you can.
But in the end, chevy parts are cheaper than the P and you can get extended warranties on the Vette through various forum dealers for 10 years after new for only a grand or so that are GM warranties.
I agree the Mustang values drop like rocks and that is one issue that scares me.

Barron64,
Those are nice numbers. I was surprised when I saw them. Any mods other than PP1?

 

[barron64]

No mods on car. Stock PP1 is plenty capable for a track day. You will put a hurting on the Michelin’s and the stock brake pads though.

 

[CVCashmere]

I have heard that the reason the front top brace is not on UK cars is because of the pedestrian crumple zone on the hood would not be sufficient with the brace there. True!

I also read there was a similar problem with the Corvette ZR-1 for the UK-it required too many modifications for pedestrian safety.

Enjoy the sunshine!

CVCashmere

 

[pardoneo]

I have heard that the reason the front top brace is not on UK cars is because of the pedestrian crumple zone on the hood would not be sufficient with the brace there. True!

I also read there was a similar problem with the Corvette ZR-1 for the UK-it required too many modifications for pedestrian safety.

Enjoy the sunshine!

CVCashmere

Exactly, precisely because it is also not available stock in the EU Mustang LHD neither, which we also have the PP as standard. Nor comes from the factory on the Bullitt EU, as it comes in the US.

Just my two cents here:
I also do not agree on the sound proofing on the vert compared with the fastback. Of course it is a huge improvement from gen 5 but the fastback has less rattles and quieter interior on cruise than the vert with the roof up.

I owned an Ecoboost fastback for three years before switching to a GT convertible (both manual) and the rigidity is really different and better on the fastback. I have sitting in the garage both Steeda jacking rails and gtrac K brace pending install once we can get outside in this covid situation (expecting big improvement from the FP strut brace that I got installed a couple of months ago without noticeable difference)

I have to say that, nevertheless being fastback or vert, the Mustang has a very floaty and electric steering which does not transmit to the driver the full lot of information that you expect while driving twisty (and somewhat narrow) roads in second or third gear. The car is quite big and feels like it is spreading apart his legs on this kind of driving. You do not get the feel on where is the stick limit of the rubber while holding the curve as a BMW does. The steering wheel is big and light (even in the sportiest feel select) hence I think it is not as effective as a Porsche in this kind of driving.

 

[Tim_]

Just my two cents here:
I also do not agree on the sound proofing on the vert compared with the fastback. Of course it is a huge improvement from gen 5 but the fastback has less rattles and quieter interior on cruise than the vert with the roof up.

Hmm, definitely should not have any rattles on a convertible roof. The only ones I have experience of rattling have been broken, all the other cars haven’t rattled.

 

[Balr14]

My 997.2 was a cabriolet. It was a little quieter than my GT with the top up. But, it isn't something I actively notice. The rear window of the GT tends to flap a bit with the top up and windows down, at higher speeds. This is not uncommon to convertibles, but did not occur in my Porsche.

Don't all cars use electric power steering now? Anyway, Sport mode setting for the steering provides more road feel.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I have to say that, nevertheless being fastback or vert, the Mustang has a very floaty and electric steering which does not transmit to the driver the full lot of information that you expect while driving twisty (and somewhat narrow) roads in second or third gear.

Try a Gen 3 car with PP1 + MR, it's extremely planted, and reasonably communicative.

It was a little quieter than my GT with the top up.

Wait, are you saying the top goes up too? This is news to me ...

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