Boost and traction control/torque management?

[pmor4243]

I have had my car Procharged for the last 8 months and tuned by one of the reputable tuners on here. Drivability has been phenomenal, but unfortunately, I ended up taking it in for a dyno tune by a local shop because I could not do a WOT pull without the car pulling 2-4* timing on a regular occurrence. Relative to the baseline of how I brought them the car, they were able to pick up around 100hp with no knock, which is great.

Now, when trying to do a couple of pulls to test everything and get acclimated to the new tune, I noticed that the car wants to spin much easier than before (good indication of more power I suppose) but I'm noticing that it seems to be way quicker to cut power than it ever was before. I almost can't even floor it anywhere because it will just pull, cut power, pull, cut power etc. and basically feels like someone under the hood is flicking a light switch on and off at semi random intervals. Is this somewhat normal for those of you with superchargers/higher horsepower?

The car had plenty of power to spin before, but I rarely saw this kind of behavior. I could typically leave traction control on, get on the throttle and the car would definitely get a little loose but do really good job of maintaining the right level of traction to not completely cut power.

Are there different strategies that can be used/tuned with traction control that might create these two very different outcomes?

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Update 12/13/22: Figured Id toss a quick update in here. This all seems to be tune related. Had some concerns about the new dyno tune so actually went to a different facility for another dyno run to compare the new tune to the old.

Turns out the local shop that did the dyno tune, to put it simply, just did not do a good job and did some borderline ethically questionable things in my opinion. Their tune is not even close in drivability, exhibited knock on the follow up dyno run that the sensors seemed to be unaware of (knock sensors likely turned off or reduced quite a bit), and most alarming of all, the old tune which they claimed they picked up 100 hp over put down nearly 700 hp while theirs delivered 660.

This was all a learning experience (an expensive one but worthwhile I suppose) and shows just how much the tuning on these cars, especially with the 10 speed effects the overall performance and drivability. It is surprising to me the dramatic difference in drivability that you can get between two different tuners.

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[Goterr0r]

What kind of tires do you have? With that extra power, that is likely the key to now keep them planted compared to being down 100hp like you mentioned.

 

[MKL_DS]

Talk to your tuner. It is very likely something that can be adjusted more to your liking.

 

[pmor4243]

What kind of tires do you have? With that extra power, that is likely the key to now keep them planted compared to being down 100hp like you mentioned.

Currently have all seasons on at the moment (winter in Utah) and I do acknowledge that more grip would help. Still, though, its a pretty dramatic difference in how the car seems to handle traction control between the different tunes. I would go as far as to say the current one is almost not usable unless I turn advancetrack off.

Talk to your tuner. It is very likely something that can be adjusted more to your liking.

I have definitely brought it up and so far the claim is just that wheel spin will cause this. I have a few other things I'm planning to ask them about since the car is shifting really hard all the time now and also has problems hitting the limiter in 2nd instead of shifting.

 

[noshine4mine]

Mine just gets louder not faster when I have traction control on. I always guessed it was just torque limiting and the way to turn off the torque limiting was to turn off Advanced Trac. Alot of the nanny stuff on our cars is affected by wheel hop and the rear tires spinning faster than the front tires.

I get early shifts out of 2nd. I assume it is a traction issue as my car goes from 1-2 i get some tire spin. I Have Nitto NT05R DRs and this is at the track.

When I ran it stock with Hankook 325 street tires it would fall on its face all the time. All coming from Wheel hop and spin. Mostly the wheel hop.

A Few weekends ago I went to the track and it was super cold. Track couldn't hold shit. I had Advanced trac off and I went for a ride until I let out at 300 or so feet. It was a little dangerous, but it was fun as hell.

Not sure this helps, Just my 2cents


Are you getting wheel hop?
Cradle reinforcement and tires will clean this up.

 

[pmor4243]

Mine just gets louder not faster when I have traction control on. I always guessed it was just torque limiting and the way to turn off the torque limiting was to turn off Advanced Trac. Alot of the nanny stuff on our cars is affected by wheel hop and the rear tires spinning faster than the front tires.

I get early shifts out of 2nd. I assume it is a traction issue as my car goes from 1-2 i get some tire spin. I Have Nitto NT05R DRs and this is at the track.

When I ran it stock with Hankook 325 street tires it would fall on its face all the time. All coming from Wheel hop and spin. Mostly the wheel hop.

A Few weekends ago I went to the track and it was super cold. Track couldn't hold shit. I had Advanced trac off and I went for a ride until I let out at 300 or so feet. It was a little dangerous, but it was fun as hell.

Not sure this helps, Just my 2cents


Are you getting wheel hop?
Cradle reinforcement and tires will clean this up.

Thanks for this. That does help as I'm trying to figure out how traction control and toque management responds for others sounds like yours is doing something similar.

I actually rarely experienced hop with TC on, it just cuts power before anything happens and as you mentioned the car falls on its face. If you keep your foot down, it then turns into a jerky, slow nightmare as the power is cut and then turned on then cut again.

With advance track off, I might as well be on ice. Although, I can at least feel it better with advance track off which helps me modulate the throttle much better than with everything on.

 

[Zrussian13]

Advance trak off and good throttle manipulation. I still get no traction below 60mph but it keeps its straight until it hooks.

 

[noshine4mine]

Thanks for this. That does help as I'm trying to figure out how traction control and toque management responds for others sounds like yours is doing something similar.

I actually rarely experienced hop with TC on, it just cuts power before anything happens and as you mentioned the car falls on its face. If you keep your foot down, it then turns into a jerky, slow nightmare as the power is cut and then turned on then cut again.

With advance track off, I might as well be on ice. Although, I can at least feel it better with advance track off which helps me modulate the throttle much better than with everything on.

If you don't drive yours a bunch I highly suggest getting Drag radials. It is just a safety issue. You can still spin them, you just have to be more deliberate about it.

 

[2022 Mach 1]

What transmission?

 

[pmor4243]

What transmission?

10 Speed.

Previous tune, I never had any issues. Could floor it and the car seemed to manage the traction well. It would keep it right on the edge of spinning vs completely roasting the tires. If I turned traction control off it would just spin until I let off, usually with lots of sideways actions, so it was pretty easy to see it was doing its job.

New tune, the car spins and just gets hit with huge power cuts.

Here is a video comparing how traction control engages between the tunes. You can see and hear the difference and I'm not sure which one is more normal:

 

[2022 Mach 1]

10 Speed.

Previous tune, I never had any issues. Could floor it and the car seemed to manage the traction well. It would keep it right on the edge of spinning vs completely roasting the tires. If I turned traction control off it would just spin until I let off, usually with lots of sideways actions, so it was pretty easy to see it was doing its job.

New tune, the car spins and just gets hit with huge power cuts.

Here is a video comparing how traction control engages between the tunes. You can see and hear the difference and I'm not sure which one is more normal:

Torque truncation may be kicking in with TC on. Looks like it is surging the switch on/off you are talking about. Seems like fuel is be cut off and on cause it is to limit power if this is the case. You should be able to log this on the street to share with your tuner. Your tuner should be able to adjust this so the trans protection doesn't kick in so soon.

I had a similar issue with a whipple car an 6r80.

 

[pmor4243]

@2022 Mach 1 ya, in the logs it looks like it’s cutting spark down to almost nothing.

This is a second gear pull and you can see where it pulls way back on spark. I also noticed in those areas, Torque Source switches from Traction Control to TQ Based Decel, then back to driver demand and then the proses repeats.

I’ve definitely sent a few logs over to the tuner and am waiting to hear back on what he can do. Glad to hear it may be something that can tuned out a bit more because as of right now, I am really hating driving the car compared to how it was.

 

[Andy13186]

Try going into track mode and toggling TCS off. Should still have advancetrac but should not cut power unless too sidways. Atleast this works for me.

 

[pmor4243]

Try going into track mode and toggling TCS off. Should still have advancetrac but should not cut power. Atleast this works for me.

Ya that definitely keeps it from cutting out like this. It will still cut out from time to time, probably as it starts going too sideways, but not anywhere near as bad.

 

[noshine4mine]

Ya that definitely keeps it from cutting out like this. It will still cut out from time to time, probably as it starts going too sideways, but not anywhere near as bad.

Im going to try this tomorrow at TnT.

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