Base GT track day limits

[smithhead]

After reading your post, I just couldn't walk away not saying anything. So before I start I want to apologize in advance if anything I a say is hurtful as I really don't mean to be personal.

Everyone starts somewhere and your writing this post gives me plenty of re-enforcement that you have a good head on your shoulders. This is for the 99% of people who didn't post this thread.

DON'T get on the track or behind the wheel unless you have a safe vehicle with proper prep work and this COST MONEY. period. Every weekend, one person (at least) crashes bad and most of the time it's someone driving over their head OR someone who has no clue.

Cars today are super fast and relatively cheap to buy, speeds are high at the track so, Brake Fluid, Tires, lug nuts, no fluid leaks, items being removed from the interior, floor mat's removed, tire pressures, Belts, situational awareness on and at the track are so important.

Thanks, no apologies necessary, I appreciate all the advice. The track does give you a safety inspection checklist that covers everything you mentioned. I will definitely try to keep my car in proper shape and not push the limits.

Best way to learn car control is in a huge parking lot covered with snow/ice and all traction control turned off. If you don't live in a cold climate, take a trip to Minnesota in the winter before jumping on any track, that's your first tip.

I do live in a cold climate, and this track also has an autocross course, and they run it regardless of weather conditions. But unfortunately it's been a really warm winter. But I should do it in the dry anyway. I have heard it's a great experience in the snow, and I know that will help you learn how to catch a slide, although it won't help know the limits of the car in the dry.

#1 Really scares me that (someone) would even know how to install any brake cooling properly! Learning how to brake properly is #1. Otherwise you'll fade the brakes regardless of any fluid and cooling ducts. And yes when the brakes fade, you normally have ZERO warning and you're backwards in the guardrail.

Proper braking is press super hard when approaching a corner and let OFF the brake pedal as you get closer to the corner. The total opposite of how you drive on the street. Learn this first.

I'm not talking about making my own ducting like several on here have done. I saw some ready to install kits that were recommended here. But I do know about letting off before the corner. The key is knowing when, which requires learning the car and the track, hence what I'm trying to do now.

#2. Mustangs are too heavy and require the best brake fluid out there or you will crash. Castrol SRF $78/bottle is the best. Now be careful not to buy it on sale for $68, why because it's 2-3 years old and looses it's stopping power. The master brake cylinder in normal Mustangs are junk and and the ABS is even worse. If you ever get going faster you need to be aware it can fail and cause you to crash. So buying a cheap car is a bad option. (I didn't even get into how to bleed the brakes properly or if you should get stainless steel brake lines)

Thanks, good to know, sad though. I guess all American cars are cheap; I've heard Corvettes have plenty of problems on the track too, but it seems Camaros do a little better, so not sure what's up. I did know how to bleed brakes properly at one point and have done it a number of times but will need to brush up on it. I have read about stainless steel lines but then saw other posts that said that wasn't necessary because they aren't straight rubber. But I'll consider that after the other things.

#3. You probably have one corner warning.

#4 I would keep it on as a novice, until it annoys you.

#5. Diff cooler will be mandatory as you get faster but hope you sell the car before that as it's not a safe track car.

#6. So the radiator is too small for prolonged track use. see #5.

#7. See #5.

Thanks. Yes, I realize now this is not an ideal track car. My intention was never to do this seriously or in any way competitively. I just want to be able to enjoy the car as much as can be done safely and reliably without a huge investment. If that means I can't do much so be it.

As for your final thoughts, as you get more track time, changing fluids are cheap compared to Engines/Transmissions/Rear ends.

a. Engine oil every 4-6hrs of track time.
b. Transmissions every 3 track weekends (but remember the Trans is a weak link and will fail)
c. Rear end if it has a Torsen rear end once a Season if you don't have one, you need to put one in.

a. This is what Ford recommends.
b. Yikes, that is not good. Ford doesn't say anything about this, probably because they figure people will be using manuals on the track. In all my research I didn't run across anything about the transmissions. I haven't looked into whether there are upgraded coolers, or perhaps a deeper finned pan.
c. Only the Mach 1/Shelby have a Torsen I believe. Ford says 500 miles. Crazy how much of an issue this is.

Get a Coach vs buying any go-fast parts for your car.

Hope this helps, most of all buddy up with the guys who have done it a long time, because even if they're wrong, they know more then you and will keep you alive.

Drive Safe

Yes, I hope I can get to know some people without being a burden. But at this point I'm leaning more towards bagging it altogether.

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[smithhead]

Well a base 300a car does have diffy temp if you get a PP1/2 car.

No PP unfortunately.

 

[Ewheels]

@smithhead I wanted to share my $0.02 as I think some of the previous posts were rather extreme.

One in particular saying the mustang is a terrible track car and you should sell it immediately....that's craziness. Any car can be a track car. You just need to be sure it's prepared correctly.

Don't worry about upgrading your car immediately. You're a novice; you're going to be slow and that's fine. You'll pick up knowledge and experience as you go.
Starting out, the car can handle the speeds and abuse of a novice. You don't need to change anything. As you get more comfortable and pick up speed, I'd start with track brake pads and wider wheels/tires. After that, address issues as they come up. There's no sense adding cooling mods if you aren't getting the car that hot to begin with.
Spend your money on seat time and coaching.

Few things:
1. Regarding stability control and the nannies: a coach once told me "leave all the nannies ON until you can tell and feel that they are holding you back."
2. Regarding brakes: hard pedal, no brake = glazed pads = brake pads can't handle the heat. Time to upgrade.
Soft pedal, no brake = boiled brake fluid = correct braking technique or bleed air out or upgrade to higher temp fluid.
You'll feel gradually diminishing braking performance, it won't sneak up on you out of nowhere.
3. Various temps:
- engine coolant: the analog dial is useless. Monitor Cylinder Head Temp instead. Your coolant temps will be 10-15° below CHT. So if your CHT reaches about 240° it's time to back off.
- engine oil: unless this is a PP option only, the color gauge for oil temp is decently accurate. Not perfect, but it'll do. Unless you're reaching the red zone, don't worry about it. Change your engine oil frequently, stay out of red, and you're perfect.
- trans: no temp gauge here (maybe A10's have one, not sure). MT82 don't have heat issues but they don't like high rpm shifts. A10 definitely have heat issues.
- diff: without a temp sensor, it's hard to know for sure how hot you're getting it. I would upgrade fluid at least (cheap insurance) and then if you're really concerned, look into adding a temp sensor.

This may provide some helpful info as well:
First Track Day Prep and Expectations

 

[smithhead]

@smithhead I wanted to share my $0.02 as I think some of the previous posts were rather extreme.

One in particular saying the mustang is a terrible track car and you should sell it immediately....that's craziness. Any car can be a track car. You just need to be sure it's prepared correctly.

Don't worry about upgrading your car immediately. You're a novice; you're going to be slow and that's fine. You'll pick up knowledge and experience as you go.
Starting out, the car can handle the speeds and abuse of a novice. You don't need to change anything. As you get more comfortable and pick up speed, I'd start with track brake pads and wider wheels/tires. After that, address issues as they come up. There's no sense adding cooling mods if you aren't getting the car that hot to begin with.
Spend your money on seat time and coaching.

Few things:
1. Regarding stability control and the nannies: a coach once told me "leave all the nannies ON until you can tell and feel that they are holding you back."
2. Regarding brakes: hard pedal, no brake = glazed pads = brake pads can't handle the heat. Time to upgrade.
Soft pedal, no brake = boiled brake fluid = correct braking technique or bleed air out or upgrade to higher temp fluid.
You'll feel gradually diminishing braking performance, it won't sneak up on you out of nowhere.
3. Various temps:
- engine coolant: the analog dial is useless. Monitor Cylinder Head Temp instead. Your coolant temps will be 10-15° below CHT. So if your CHT reaches about 240° it's time to back off.
- engine oil: unless this is a PP option only, the color gauge for oil temp is decently accurate. Not perfect, but it'll do. Unless you're reaching the red zone, don't worry about it. Change your engine oil frequently, stay out of red, and you're perfect.
- trans: no temp gauge here (maybe A10's have one, not sure). MT82 don't have heat issues but they don't like high rpm shifts. A10 definitely have heat issues.
- diff: without a temp sensor, it's hard to know for sure how hot you're getting it. I would upgrade fluid at least (cheap insurance) and then if you're really concerned, look into adding a temp sensor.

This may provide some helpful info as well:
First Track Day Prep and Expectations

Thank you very much!

I believe there is a trans temp gauge, but no oil temp. Yes, I did see that sticky thread, full of great information.

 

[tosha]

I just use @Ewheels build thread as my roadmap
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ewheels-road-course-build.123490/

Really like how it's written and that car mods follow the skill progression

 

[Fastoldman]

ewheels has the common sense route to take and frankly as a Novice the main things you really should look to initially is a high quality DOT 4 racing brake fluid ( like Motul 600 ) , some more aggressive brake pads, and a simple mod for where you likely run. I noticed you are from Salt Lake , so Utah Motorsports Campus is your home track and what has not been addressed is the likely heat caused from the high altitude of the track. Having run there twice, and a couple of tracks in Colorado over 5000 ft. many of the drivers in those locals will drain a bit of antifreeze ( use a turkey baster ) and fill it back up with 2 bottles of Water Wetter. Not a cure all , as brakes , engine and more do need more airflow to stay cool at altitude, but I have found it to be a benefit when I raced at all the tracks I mentioned. You are just beginning , and NASA runs at UMC quite often, get in with them, you will get an Instructor for your HPDE, and that will give you the chance to focus on the track and learn your Mustang at your pace. I do find some of the dire warnings a bit humorous , as the base Mustang would romp over some of the quote/unquote performance model Stangs of years past. Go out and have fun and check out drivenasa.com for the schedule of the Utah Region. I envy you being so close to Miller , er, UMC , and I still think Ford made a huge mistake moving to North Carolina. UMC was a track where a mistake meant flying in the dirt and killing a few small cactus, and this helped new drivers push their limits without fear of destroying their ride.

 

[smithhead]

I just use @Ewheels build thread as my roadmap
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ewheels-road-course-build.123490/

Really like how it's written and that car mods follow the skill progression

Thank you, great info in that thread.

 

[smithhead]

ewheels has the common sense route to take and frankly as a Novice the main things you really should look to initially is a high quality DOT 4 racing brake fluid ( like Motul 600 ) , some more aggressive brake pads, and a simple mod for where you likely run. I noticed you are from Salt Lake , so Utah Motorsports Campus is your home track and what has not been addressed is the likely heat caused from the high altitude of the track. Having run there twice, and a couple of tracks in Colorado over 5000 ft. many of the drivers in those locals will drain a bit of antifreeze ( use a turkey baster ) and fill it back up with 2 bottles of Water Wetter. Not a cure all , as brakes , engine and more do need more airflow to stay cool at altitude, but I have found it to be a benefit when I raced at all the tracks I mentioned. You are just beginning , and NASA runs at UMC quite often, get in with them, you will get an Instructor for your HPDE, and that will give you the chance to focus on the track and learn your Mustang at your pace. I do find some of the dire warnings a bit humorous , as the base Mustang would romp over some of the quote/unquote performance model Stangs of years past. Go out and have fun and check out drivenasa.com for the schedule of the Utah Region. I envy you being so close to Miller , er, UMC , and I still think Ford made a huge mistake moving to North Carolina. UMC was a track where a mistake meant flying in the dirt and killing a few small cactus, and this helped new drivers push their limits without fear of destroying their ride.

Thanks, I forgot about the effects of altitude, I was primarily worried about heat in the summer. And I had previously read about people using water wetter but since forgot, so thanks.

I see the Motul has a dry boiling point of 312C, wow . It's crazy because these cars have better fluid and bigger brakes than what we had in the "old" days but it's still not enough, yet I never had problems before. Granted, the Porsche was a much lighter car but the Audi was heavier, especially on the front. But I certainly didn't push it as much as you all are.

And to show my ignorance, I didn't even know that NASA had HDPE, I thought it was strictly a racing organization.

At some point it seems you can get carried away with mods to a street car and it's better to just have a dedicated track car. Especially if it's a daily driver.

 

[Fastoldman]

The funny thing is the HPDE portion of the NASA events is usually the largest group in most Regions. NASA's big strength is their ladder system within, where drivers can advance up through the ranks to Time Trials or even Wheel to Wheel , without going to a Driving School. Their HPDE system is structured to give drivers instruction and help them move at their own personal pace. I may be biased since I am a certified NASA Instructor, but Instruction is one of their strengths as a driving/racing organization. I am also a member of SCCA and they do some events with limited instruction, and you can look into their "Track Night " schedules.

 

[VisceralSyn]

The funny thing is the HPDE portion of the NASA events is usually the largest group in most Regions. NASA's...

I did several Track Night in America by MidSouth SCCA here at Memphis International Raceway, last year, and the year before. Will be doing my first NASA HPDE this weekend, also at Memphis International Raceway. Both SCCA and NASA are great organizations!

 

[tosha]

A side question - is there a reason why Motul 600 is so popular and at the same time I don't see many people recommend 660, which is even higher boiling point?

 

[nbjeeptj]

On the motul 600 v 660 question, I would think 600 is more popular due to cost. 660 is a good bit more money, but I have also always wandered that also. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I have used 660 for several years now and have had no issues. I do bleed the brakes before every track day and have had some reason to remove all the fluid due to replacing calipers, and a master cylinder, so my fluid stays pretty fresh. I think 660 is only good for about a year once open, dont know about 600.

 

[nbjeeptj]

I did not know that about the rubber, but I got lucky in my case since my PP brake upgrade kit come with braided lines.

 

[Fastoldman]

nbjeeptj,
I think you are quite correct on the reasoning between the 600 and the 660 , and I commend you for changing the fluid after each track weekend. Tracking for 40+ years I try to tell folks ( often when Instructing ) that the easiest maintenance for longevity of a track car is frequent fluid changes. Ironically, I learned to make sure folks understood that did not mean just engine , tranny and rear end fluid , but also brake. I too change after every weekend and I follow close to Fords recommendations for their race cars ( Boss S, Boss R, FR350S ) and change the other fluids around 4 hours. I used to change the oil after every weekend and other fluids after two, but now I try and follow the 4-6 hours recommendations from friends who are Ford and Stellantis Engineers.

nbrightstar has another good point I have heard before , but can not verify. I do know that an open bottle of brake fluid should be used relatively quickly, they all have an affinity to moisture ( water ).

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