Arh headers with cats wont pass emissions test?

[mustang_guy]

A lot of mis-perceptions cited in this thread about the testing and what will work/not work. In the following, I hope I can add some clarification.

All modern automobile ECU's by OBD2 standards, employ readiness monitors. The ECU is continuously performing tests of emission components and is programmed to turn on the CEL if a test fails. If the test continues to pass, everything is fine and no CEL. All good so far, but the purpose of the readiness monitor is to state if the test has been performed. So, for example, if you live in a state that does SMOG testing by connecting to the OBD2 port, there are only two things that are being checked. No readiness monitors are on (indicating that an emission components test has not yet been performed) AND that there are no CELs. The OBD2 connected test CANNOT determine if the rear O2s are on or off, but IF they are off, either you will have a failed but suppressed fault code, or the CAT readiness monitor will not be set and you will fail the inspection.

Many tuners readily have access to turn off the rear O2's and further, they can SUPPRESS the CAT (or virtually any other code) from illuminating the CEL. This may give many the FALSE sense of security that all is good. To the best of my knowledge, tuners DO NOT have the ability to muck with the readiness monitors so currently there is no programmatic way around this.

Many modestly prices code readers will now also report on the state of the readiness tests. This is cool insofar that you can plug one of these code readers in and know whether or not you will pass this component of the SMOG check. You must have NO codes, and all of the readiness monitors must be set (indicating that the internal tests have been performed).

My $.02 on the aftermarket headers/cats based on our rather considerable emissions testing with the Boss 302 (wideband-controlled) Coyote engine. I'd estimate the MOST aftermarket CATs are not near-enough the OEM density/quality to pass the internal CAT testing and would therefore represent a fail condition. Our experience was with Kook's latest (at the time) "green" cats. In fact, Kook's worked with us and created a system with (2) of the green cats in series per side - 4 cats total, and this worked for us initially but failed again within a year.

I'd be (pleasantly!) surprised to learn of an aftermarket header/CAT solution that would work in compliance with late model (2012+) Mustang ECU which seems to be extremely adept (unfortunately) of detecting sub-OEM quality CATs in lieu of the OEM CATs.

Opensource and rom raider shows you're incorrect. You can force readiness. You can pull up with a cel, turn it off and force readiness and pass with this kind of tuning in the evo and subaru world. However i dont believe hpt or sct tuning is able to do that. Which is unfortunate. However lethal was mentioning this below which sounds like they are but i wasnt going to assume its the same thing.

Catted headers technically WILL NOT pass emissions because they are not 50 or even 49 state legal since they have been moved from the OEM location. Now, some tuners, like Lund Racing, can set the tune in such a way that when connected to the scanner for the readiness testing they can get you a "PASS" reading. Some states this cannot be done in, like CA, NY, VA and some others. I'm not sure off the top of my head which states they cannot "trick", but the 3 I listed I know for sure.

The difference with the Kooks Green Cats is that a tune is not needed with those, so you do not have to turn off the rear O2's which will get you a "FAIL" on the readiness test.

Sponsored

 

[CoolTech]

rom raider is only for Subaru?? Maybe you can shed some more info on "opensource" as it was too broad of a term for me to search and locate what you are referencing.

The referenced post by Lethal is, in fact, confusing. The admission that some states (CA, NY, and VA) cannot be fooled leads me to believe that perhaps other states are not checking readiness states.

And I reconfirm as a fact that Kook's "Green" cats used in conjunction with their Headers will generate an O2 CEL on a Boss 302 Coyote motor. We set-up 3 of these cars for track use and had the same failures on all 3 - despite that Kooks would swear their CATs would work. The didn't. Maybe things have changed since then??

 

[Nick@JDM]

rom raider is only for Subaru?? Maybe you can shed some more info on "opensource" as it was too broad of a term for me to search and locate what you are referencing.

The referenced post by Lethal is, in fact, confusing. The admission that some states (CA, NY, and VA) cannot be fooled leads me to believe that perhaps other states are not checking readiness states.

And I reconfirm as a fact that Kook's "Green" cats used in conjunction with their Headers will generate an O2 CEL on a Boss 302 Coyote motor. We set-up 3 of these cars for track use and had the same failures on all 3 - despite that Kooks would swear their CATs would work. The didn't. Maybe things have changed since then??

It has been hit or miss with us on 2011+ cars. We have installed 2 Green Cats on each side on a Boss 302 type car with success before. Sometimes we can just install those spacers with one set of cats.

There may be some PCM strategies that support functions that may allow you to "trick" the computer into passing with high flow or even no cats but that is highly illegal and not something we and or other tuners are likely willing to do.

The guys who tune diesels and turn off any emissions equipment have been sought out by the EPA recently and they are not joking around these days. Jail time is a possible punishment for this "crime" not to mention the fines $$. Just look up what went down over at H&S...

 

[2015 Silver GT]

Another thing that I and many others have found that when it comes time to do an emissions test is if you need to get the readiness tests ready using the Ford drive cycle it is extremely difficult to do. Some have driven hundreds of miles and stil cannot get them complete. I am currently trying to help someone on another forum get them up and ready and so far nothing is working. The hardest two to complete are in fact the rear o2 sensors.

 

[mustang_guy]

rom raider is only for Subaru?? Maybe you can shed some more info on "opensource" as it was too broad of a term for me to search and locate what you are referencing.

The referenced post by Lethal is, in fact, confusing. The admission that some states (CA, NY, and VA) cannot be fooled leads me to believe that perhaps other states are not checking readiness states.

And I reconfirm as a fact that Kook's "Green" cats used in conjunction with their Headers will generate an O2 CEL on a Boss 302 Coyote motor. We set-up 3 of these cars for track use and had the same failures on all 3 - despite that Kooks would swear their CATs would work. The didn't. Maybe things have changed since then??

Sure thing.

Open ecu tuning. http://www.openecu.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://www.romraider.com/

Its something the evo and subaru community both use as another option to cobb etc. Its free. Open ecu is another term you could call open source. I use this explanation loosely, but its similar to something like linux , as cobb would be Microsoft or Apple.

I dont think im going to have trouble being i didnt with my 14 gt500 that was catless. I really hope the ecu hasnt changed so much that i do. I have plans for a 1500hp monster. Trying to deal with that on a build like that wont be fun.:lol:

 

[Sk0t24]

I am in the same predicament. I live in Northern Virginia, where obdII emissions tests are required every two years to renew registration. I work at a dealership, so I have plenty of techs that don't mind overlooking the visual inspection, BUT rear o2 banks being turned off is an automatic failure. There is no way around it.

If there was someway to add spacers to the sensors that would read ready, and not throw CEL, I would have longtubes yesterday.

I've used these in the past, and they work like a charm.

http://www.42draftdesigns.com/o2-sensor-spacer/

 

[BCeagle08]

To my knowledge there is no way, at the moment, to trick the 2015/16 mustang ECU into thinking that it has performed a full emission test when in fact you have rear o2 sensors turned off.

Yes, there are ways to do this on other cars (subarus, bmws, etc) but there is currently no way to do it on a 2015/16 mustang. The only thing you can do is install catted headers and HOPE it doesn't trip a CEL with the rear 02s turned on.

On my n54 bmw there was a spoofer that you installed that tricked the car into ignoring the fact that your catless downpipes were in fact not passing emissions testing.

 

[Kashawy]

I thought you need to do the inspection after 4 years. If that's the case I say put them headers and enjoy, God knows what's gunna happen in 4 years time.

 

[CoolTech]

To my knowledge there is no way, at the moment, to trick the 2015/16 mustang ECU into thinking that it has performed a full emission test when in fact you have rear o2 sensors turned off.

Having looked at the reference links, I too share your assessment. I've seen nothing that would work for late-model Ford ECU's that can reliable fool the readiness monitors.... despite there is arguable a great need ??!!??

Case in point. Our main line of work is 2005-06 Ford GTs. Because of the rise in value of these cars, many owners are not driving them. Too often, whether on a battery tender or not, the batteries are dying (mostly from aging out). The dead battery wipes out all of the readiness monitors and owners typically discover this about the same time that their smog check is due. Last month I had to put 74 miles on a customer's GT to get the monitors to reset. This 74 miles was about the same total miles that the car had been driven in the last 3 years!! There's no way around it if you want to keep current registration. I have another customer with an in-the-wrapper, all original, 140 total mile Heritage GT. Has a dead battery. The ONLY way to get it past smog is to log another ~70-75 miles on it. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Silver50Pony]

I thought you need to do the inspection after 4 years. If that's the case I say put them headers and enjoy, God knows what's gunna happen in 4 years time.

In NY it's once a year for us, were literally screwed if we can't pass this year

 

[BCeagle08]

In NY it's once a year for us, were literally screwed if we can't pass this year

To be fair, in NY your car is not tested for emissions if it is less than 2 years old so you can theoretically get away with it until your car is required to be tested

 

[Silver50Pony]

To be fair, in NY your car is not tested for emissions if it is less than 2 years old so you can theoretically get away with it until your car is required to be tested

Yea but next year 2017 I'd be screwed then lol

 

[Joe 5.0]

If I am not mistaken, don't the inspection machines throw a "connection error" on an ECU that has been tuned?

 

[Silver50Pony]

If I am not mistaken, don't the inspection machines throw a "connection error" on an ECU that has been tuned?

No, never been a problem before on tuned s197s

 

[Sheenapple]

just bringing this thread back up. phrenetiK i'm in houston and i heard you recently got headers done, how's that going to play out come emissions? im registered in montgomery county so maybe i can get my car to pass with catless

Sponsored