Are you on the fence and if so why?

[tbonez3858]

I would never spend my money on an Evo. It may have 4 doors and room for 4 passengers but it just feels like a piece of shit as far as the interior is concerned. I'm not sure I want to be reminded of that every time I start up a $50k car (here in Canada). It also gets horrid fuel economy, the dealership network is almost non existent, and it is still a Lancer despite a high price tag. No thanks.



Why should you feel defensive about calling out the STI? It has a 10 year old EJ257 under the hood that busts ringlands and spins bearings, stock or otherwise. Someone's 2015 STI (one month old) is already spewing blue smoke on startup (check out NASIOC in the general thread). I'm sorry for your friend's loss, but I cannot imagine why anybody would buy one if they had done even the tiniest bit of research. The EJ257 alone would be enough to turn me away, but it also only comes in a sedan body (no hatch), and the WRX has the much better engine (which I've hear can be easily tuned to beat the STI's power output with greater reliability, better fuel efficiency, and less turbo lag). When confronted with the question why they had stuck with the EJ257 in the STI, Subaru said that there was no need to replace the engine because they had met their targets. In other words: "We ran out of money, and we don't care about a super niche model in our lineup anyway."

Ugh. Just thinking of the 2015 STI and what it has become (or what it has NOT become) is making me feel disgusted.

As for the part about the BMW 235...I don't want to pay the BMW tax, and I'm skeptical of their reliability long term. The last thing I want is to keep paying money to keep the car out of the shop....

So we pretty much agree in lock step outside of the EVO. I would drop coin on the EVO in a second. The only reason I haven't bought one is the Mustang. I get the insurance rates, the crap interior and the overpriced sticker tag. These are legit concerns and reasons not to buy the car..I challenge anyone to hoon one for a day and not want one, however. The Evo is like crack and even the most sceptic all want one after driving one. There is a reason these cars are a legends. When you find the battery and the windshield washer fluid in the trunk of a performance car you know they are serious business. It's a mini GTR that is tried and true....I've never read or watched a bad review of an EVO and there is a reason why. If you don't like them or feel they are overpriced I get it...In regards to performance they are the real deal and you will find yourself in a very small minority with those that disagree.

You can drop 4 or 5k on an evo and have a 400hp AWD Mustang eating machine that is know to be ridiculously forgiving...Outside of that I'm not sure what isn't to like outside of the interior and supplemental cost.

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[FATTBoss]

My two main issues with the new gen car are weight and the transmission, both of which bother me in my current car. I love my Boss and the way it drives, for the most part. On track the weight bothers me due to the sometimes ponderous feel of the car. It also eats tires and brakes like they are free. Reduced weight would have helped that.

The trans issues I can't understand. How did this get by the Ford folks when they were track testing the car? They had to experience the same issues, locking out at high RPMs, low clutch pedal, etc. yet they pushed it through anyway.

For me, the new car not shedding any weight whatsoever, and continuing with the same trans makes me just want to stick with what I have and improve it as time and funds allow. The performance of the new car will no doubt be better than a stock older model, but I'm pretty sure I can make some mods to mine to keep up or eclipse the new car on track. I don't have to worry about street manners since I have a daily driver.

 

[Free Agent]

I haven't ordered yet so I guess I am on the fence still. Basically I'm sitting on it but have both legs swung over to the Mustang side and I'm about to push off. About the only thing holding me back isn't actually the HP/TQ figures (which I do really want to know) but the pricing on the 2015 Challenger RT Scat Pack (w/the 485 HP 6.4 Hemi). Ordering begins July 9th for 2015 Challenger so they may be releasing pricing by that time. The price would really have to impress me though. I'm not expecting it too. I'm very close.

 

[Trackaholic]

I haven't ordered yet so I guess I am on the fence still. Basically I'm sitting on it but have both legs swung over to the Mustang side and I'm about to push off. About the only thing holding me back isn't actually the HP/TQ figures (which I do really want to know) but the pricing on the 2015 Challenger RT Scat Pack (w/the 485 HP 6.4 Hemi). Ordering begins July 9th for 2015 Challenger so they may be releasing pricing by that time. The price would really have to impress me though. I'm not expecting it too. I'm very close.

What are the things about the Challenger that would make you choose it over the Mustang? I think the challenger pulls off the styling aspect almost perfectly, but even with the power and even with great pricing the car is just a bit too big and heavy for my tastes.

-T

 

[valentinoamoro]

What are the things about the Challenger that would make you choose it over the Mustang? I think the challenger pulls off the styling aspect almost perfectly, but even with the power and even with great pricing the car is just a bit too big and heavy for my tastes.

-T

Same here. I considered the SRT8 scat pack 485 as I do like the look but the Challengers I've driven are far from agile - they really are great cross country machines and boulevard cruisers, true to the original spirit of the muscle car. I dropped it as I felt the Stang is probably just as fast (or close) in a straight line, handles a ton better and is a tighter package. On the other extreme of my consideration list was the M235i. LOL!!

 

[Free Agent]

What are the things about the Challenger that would make you choose it over the Mustang? I think the challenger pulls off the styling aspect almost perfectly, but even with the power and even with great pricing the car is just a bit too big and heavy for my tastes.

-T

Pricing and power to weight ratio. I'm a 1/8 & 1/4 mile guy so the handling aspect is nice to have but not critical. I will also DD it and it does have more rear seat room for my growing 12 year old if needed. We already have 2 other vehicles that are sedans so I don't want another as well. If a 485 HP 6.4 Hemi RT Scat Pack comes in at the same price as a Premium GT, I may be swayed over. I really don't think it will though. Dodge has a history of charging a LOT more money for their 6.4 Hemi offerings. As I've said, I've got both feet over the fence on Mustangs side and I'm sliding down and about to push off. Dodge will have to pull me over with incredible pricing for the Challenger.

And yes, it is one big fat brick of a pig. Yet even with its weight, it could still have a better power to weight ratio than Mustang GT (automatic) if Ford only bumps HP to 425. Torque is big in drag racing and daily driving. As for looks I actually like the Mustang better. I'm not into the whole retro scene. But I do admit 4200 pounds and that oversize package does bother me.

 

[GMAN6]

Yes, Dodge does seem to be expensive, at least at the dealers around here, but with that being said the Scat Pack should go 12's which is fast. I don't auto-x so it should handle well enough. I think the style and interior are great. If it were to be the same price as the GT I would have to think very hard about it.

 

[tbonez3858]

Same here. I considered the SRT8 scat pack 485 as I do like the look but the Challengers I've driven are far from agile - they really are great cross country machines and boulevard cruisers, true to the original spirit of the muscle car. I dropped it as I felt the Stang is probably just as fast (or close) in a straight line, handles a ton better and is a tighter package. On the other extreme of my consideration list was the M235i. LOL!!

The 235i M sport is a car to be reckoned with...Im not a BMW fan by any means and I feel the car is expensive and the interior isnt that great. With that said I test drove one and what a great car it is...It definitely puts a smile on your face and I also believe BMW underrated the performance specs.

If you leave off of the tech package and luxury package you can get one for 46k. I see no reason for either package because they dont add much value.

 

[valentinoamoro]

The 235i M sport is a car to be reckoned with...Im not a BMW fan by any means and I feel the car is expensive and the interior isnt that great. With that said I test drove one and what a great car it is...It definitely puts a smile on your face and I also believe BMW underrated the performance specs.

If you leave off of the tech package and luxury package you can get one for 46k. I see no reason for either package because they dont add much value.

You're spot on. The interior is cheap looking for the price - from what I've seen the S550's Premiums interior is a lot better. Heck, the Golf GTI has an interior that puts the 235iM to shame (at half the price). Audi also puts real brushed aluminum mirrors covers on their S line, dont just paint it gray. I also dont need those packages they offer - but no bluetooth without those expensive options is just strange!

I haven't test driven one but your comments are inline with what I'm hearing - its a great bare bones drivers car as it is and for most situations doesnt need anything else. OTOH, for what its worth the 13 Mustang GT track pack (not a good track car IMHO due to significant body motion) handily beat the M235i around the track with Randy at the wheel (times are in the video). I think the S550 GT PP will likely compete with the M4 and from Godwood it seems it sounds infinitely better than anything BMW has made since their V10.
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[mdw195]

I am in the same boat as a few others. To me, if it was all about performance, it would be the coupe/fastback. But to me, there is something about the GT convertible and that V8 that has been in the back of my mind since high school when a friend had access to his dad's 68 or 69 convertible...

I will take the test drive, and I am hoping that I find some redeeming qualities to the drive, outside of the nice motor. I have always liked older BMWs simply for the way that they feel connected to the road. This goes back to the 80s when I spent 2 years in Germany with the US military. My friend had an 80 or so 320...
I purchased a 911S during my stint and promised that I would get another, and I think that time has come. What is funny is that I am now on that fence and both feet are on the Mustang side of the fence. My dream 911s are pre-98 units and my buying window is next year. (I turn 49 tomorrow and am getting that midlife car next year).
The pre-98 911s are going up in price quickly, leaving only the newer water cooled cars -which are less emotional machines to drive "in my opinion". I am in lust with the e46 M3 as well, but do not like the idea that I could be looking at some serious cash for repairs since those cars are not exactly bullet proof.

Which brings me back to the Mustang. I sure hope I like the test drive as I do not like the camaro, and am not too interested in a newer BMW either. Only the Porsche or Mustang can I see myself still owning and driving in 20 years...and by that age I really want to be able to hand something like this down to my son (2.5 y/o).
They finally have an interior that I like, and that is what is keeping me firmly in the S550 camp...otherwise I might be tempted by the 2014 and the easy and affordable upgrades available.
I like that there is a back seat -however small, so it is not as unreasonable as say a Corvette, Lotus, Boxster, etc...

In the meantime, I will continue lurking and waiting until I can test one...and get serious about saving up for it.

 

[PsyopGoat]

I'm on the fence because I need to look at options.

I have a fair amount of money saved and toward the end of this year I'll have a lot more, so I'm waiting to buy anyway. I'd like to finance 15K or less. Anyway, my short list.

- '13/14 Mustang GT500 with track pack (IF I can find a used one is my price range).
- '15 Challenger RT 392 Shaker (depending on pricing)
- '15 Mustang GT (depending on specs)
- '13 Boss 302 (depending on specs of the '15 GT and other factors)
- '14 Challenger 392.

 

[2wheels4me]

In terms of desire, I am not on the fence. The GT Premium with manual and Performance Pack is my only thought at the moment. What I need is confirmation of what I have built it up as in my head. It's gotta feel right, sound right, look right, inside and out. Emphasis is on its driving feel. That includes steeering, damping, acceleration, throttle response, braking (both pedal feel and the suspension's response to it), clutch feel and effort, etc. I believe it will pass these tests, as I have driven the 2014s and like them pretty well, and the 2015 promises to exceed the current generation in most ways.

I am also still trying to determine exterior color and interior trim (Premier? And what does it look like?... not in configurator yet), and whether I will need to get the 401 version in order to get decent sound, as I am a regular listener of albums from my collection of music. Is it just more solid bass and not really that much better in the midrange and upper end? I probably don't need BLIS and the warts needed on the body for the radar, and I don't need the trunk being a place for two huge subwoofers and little else.

But these things can be worked out when the cars can be seen in showrooms in late September and early October. I don't need to place an order until November to get the car to show up in time for the end of my current BMW lease.

I am very excited about this despite these minor reservations. I really see it as my next car based upon what I have pumped it up to be in my head.

 

[fionic]

In terms of desire, I am not on the fence. The GT Premium with manual and Performance Pack is my only thought at the moment. What I need is confirmation of what I have built it up as in my head. It's gotta feel right, sound right, look right, inside and out. Emphasis is on its driving feel. That includes steeering, damping, acceleration, throttle response, braking (both pedal feel and the suspension's response to it), clutch feel and effort, etc. I believe it will pass these tests, as I have driven the 2014s and like them pretty well, and the 2015 promises to exceed the current generation in most ways.

I am also still trying to determine exterior color and interior trim (Premier? And what does it look like?... not in configurator yet), and whether I will need to get the 401 version in order to get decent sound, as I am a regular listener of albums from my collection of music. Is it just more solid bass and not really that much better in the midrange and upper end? I probably don't need BLIS and the warts needed on the body for the radar, and I don't need the trunk being a place for two huge subwoofers and little else.

But these things can be worked out when the cars can be seen in showrooms in late September and early October. I don't need to place an order until November to get the car to show up in time for the end of my current BMW lease.

I am very excited about this despite these minor reservations. I really see it as my next car based upon what I have pumped it up to be in my head.

the sound system will most likely not be worth the 1600 dollars. aftermarket will probably be much better.

 

[valentinoamoro]

the sound system will most likely not be worth the 1600 dollars. aftermarket will probably be much better.

Thats why I didnt bother with the 401 - not only does it add weight but I hear the Shaker isnt really good anyway (muffled, too bassy). I plan on going aftermarket with a speaker swap (and maybe amps if needed). No S/W

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