Deleted member 35786
Guest
Changing my oil soon and it will be WalMart Supertech full sythetic 5W-20, unless Mobil 1 is on sale for a good price.. Just a DD car that will never see a track. No tick so far at 27K miles.
Sponsored
you know you can order Royal Purple from Walmart, right? Heck, the fanciest Penzoil is what, $32/5qt jug and might even include a filter in that price? It's not like you're faced with the prospect of $40/qt oil (Shell something for Porche/exotic). IMO the last place I would economize is oil. Skip the Chipotle and Starbucks and before you know it you can find enough pocket change for the known good oils. I've seen the full data sheet on the Supertech and it's not garbage or anything but the base stock is different.WalMart Supertech full sythetic 5W-20
I like to summarize things as the information is a bit scattered, here is a summary of what we know regarding the differences in oil viscosity specifications across the various Coyote based Mustangs:
S197 Chassis (1st Gen 5.0)
2011-2014 Mustang GT - 5W-20 for US and no oil cooler
2011-2014 Mustang GT Track Pack - 5W-50 with water to oil cooler, ECU calibration has neutered over temperature safeties to my knowledge unlike the regular GT's for this generation.
2013-2014 Mustang Boss 302 - 5W-50 with water to oil cooler and a special variant of the 5.0 code named Road Runner (higher strength powder forged rods, re-balanced crank, higher valve lift, stiffer valve springs, CNC ported heads, oil squirters deleted, high flow intake manifold, rev limit at 7,400 rpm). ECU calibration has neutered over temperature safeties.
S550 Chassis (2nd Gen 5.0)
2015-2017 Mustang GT - 5W-20 for US with 1" radiator and water to oil cooler, Australian version 5W-20 original spec, switched to 5W-30 spec, UK version spec 5W-20 like US. ECU has over temperature safeties.
2015-2017 Mustang GT Performance Package - 5W-20 for US with 1.5" radiator and water to oil cooler, Australian version 5W-20 original spec, switched to 5W-30 spec, UK version spec 5W-20 like US. ECU has over temperature safeties.
2015-2017 Shelby GT350 - 5W-50 with water to oil cooler for US only, Voodoo 5.2L FPC engine. ECU has over temperature safeties.
2015-2017 Shelby GT350R + Track Pack - 5W-50 with air to oil cooler and differential cooler for US only, Voodoo 5.2L FPC engine. ECU has over temperature safeties.
S550 Chassis (3rd Gen 5.0)
2018-2019 Mustang GT - 5W-20 for Street and 5W-30 for Track as per user manual, 1" radiator and water to oil cooler, Australian and UK version same oil specifications. ECU has over temperature safeties.
2018-2019 Mustang GT Performance Package Level 1 and 2 - 5W-20 for Street and 5W-30 for Track as per user manual, 1.5" radiator and water to oil cooler, Australian and UK version same oil specifications. ECU has over temperature safeties.
2018-2019 Shelby GT350/R - 5W-50 with air to oil cooler and differential cooler for US only, Voodoo 5.2L FPC engine. Track Pack cooling is now standard on all variants due to the significant customer complaints with the earlier ones over heating (non-track pack). ECU has over temperature safeties.
Ford Racing School 2015 Mustang GT Performance Package cars are upgraded with a custom Air to Oil cooler, larger radiator, full racing seats, 4 point harness and roll cage, Ford Performance Track Handling Pack but run a bone stock 5.0L V8 on the factory ECU calibration for 2015 models. They run Castrol Edge Supercar 5W-50 and a FL-500S filter. I e-mailed them and those are the specs they provided including pictures of their air to oil cooler.
Things we know about the ECU tuning: Cam phasor control tables for the Voodoo 5.2L appear to be identical to those in the regular Coyote 5.0L. Voodoo 5.2L calls for 5W-50 all the time while the 5.0L ranges from 5W-20, 5W-30 and 5W-50 in it's various iterations throughout the last eight years (2011 up to 2019) and including different oil viscosity specifications for Australian 2015-2017 Mustang GT's than their US and UK counterparts. Also on OP from the UK said his Ford UK dealer refused to honor warranty with anything less than 5W-30. While that was just a single dealer, he seemed to indicate it was one of the larger Ford dealers in the UK.
Ford Shop Manual Rod Bearing-to-Crank Clearance Range: 0.0011 to 0.0027 inches. The nominal (average) clearance of the extreme spread int he spec is 0.0019 inches. I believe to the best of my knowledge the bearing shells are supplied by Clevite (a sub-company of Mahle).
Ford Coyote 5.0L Rod Journal Dia. size is 2.082 inches according to Ford Racing's Basic Engine Dimensions spec sheet. Clevite recommends 0.0007" clearance added for ever 1" of bearing size and +0.0005 clearance on top for performance engine builds. So (0.0007 * 2.082) + 0.0005 = 0.00196" Rod Bearing-to-Crank Journal clearance.
Gee, this is exactly what the nominal clearance on the both the Coyote 5.0L production engine is and ALSO on the Ford Performance Aluminator Voodoo 5.2L with Manly forged rods and Mahle forged pistons as per their data sheet that is rated at 580 HP - 445 ft-lbs torque with an 8,250 RPM rev limit. Am I missing anything? Maybe at last we can put to rest the debate about weather a production 5.0 can safely run higher viscosity oils and why the differences generation to generation.
Also note just for reference, the 5th Gen LT1 based Camaro SS (6th gen Alpha Chassis) calls for 5W-30 for normal operations and 0W-40 or 5W-40 for track use. While it can run on 87, the user manual advises to run 91 octane and that pinging may occur on lower octanes. The Hemi 392 (6.4L) calls for 0W-40 all the time and requires a minimum of 91 octane.
Key note here is that instructor cars don't get any rest. They get run every session back to back to back. Customer cars sit for 30 minutes cooling off till the next session arrives.however as they are instructor cars and their intention isn't to be absolute fastest, but fast enough and reliable after being beat on daily.
The car will not know the difference.you know you can order Royal Purple from Walmart, right? Heck, the fanciest Penzoil is what, $32/5qt jug and might even include a filter in that price? It's not like you're faced with the prospect of $40/qt oil (Shell something for Porche/exotic). IMO the last place I would economize is oil. Skip the Chipotle and Starbucks and before you know it you can find enough pocket change for the known good oils. I've seen the full data sheet on the Supertech and it's not garbage or anything but the base stock is different.
You probably already know the supertech oil has a decent add pack and base oil. I believe it meets the specs and is cheap too. The flip side is that something like mobil1 and pennzoil are designed to exceed the specs and use better ingredients. I see both sides but your typical enthusiast who wants the best sees better oil as a cheap upgrade.The car will not know the difference.
It's that kind of put down of machines that ultimately leads Skynet to declare war on us.The car will not know the difference.
I completely understand.. Been using it our cars that have well over 100k miles without blinking an eye.. Todays oil is light years better than say 20yrs ago, as long as it meets spec and you change it regularly thats all the matters.You probably already know the supertech oil has a decent add pack and base oil. I believe it meets the specs and is cheap too. The flip side is that something like mobil1 and pennzoil are designed to exceed the specs and use better ingredients. I see both sides but your typical enthusiast who wants the best sees better oil as a cheap upgrade.
Yes, but the thicker you go, the higher the drag losses and the greater the peak pressure loads in the bearing. Higher viscosity oils do generate thicker films even in the same clearance range (reference Substech articles), however the films are not as spread out within the bearing shell itself when using highly viscous oils with tight clearances. This increases peak pressures (and possibly bearing fatigue cracking) by reducing the area over which the pressure is spread out. So the upside is that the bearing has a thicker oil wedge (less prone to particle scuffing and film collapse), the down side is that the pressure is more localized (higher peak pressures) and slightly greater heat is generated locally.This is why I use A3/B4 spec oils. The A3/B4 spec requires an HTHS of 3.5 minimum, which is higher than that required for a 30 or 40 by SAE.
You want just enough protection plus a small safety margin for the temperature range you operating in. Greater film strength for the sake of having greater film strength does us no good. 5W-50 will have better film strength than the Euro spec 5W-30 from Penzoil if you want to achieve ultimate film strength and it will be more ideal under extreme oil temperatures one might see on the track (270F to 290F), that's likely why Ford calls for 5W-50 in nearly all of it's top track cars. However the drag losses are high with 50 weights until they get really hot, so it makes no sense for street use, even hard street use.Engine components require oil viscosity to be in an ideal range for optimal performance — neither too low nor too high. According to MAHLE Clevite Inc., inadequate lubrication and oil contamination are responsible for more than 50 percent of bearing failures.
For example, cold start failure — caused by lack of lubrication and running up to full RPM before the engine is warm — can destroy bearing surfaces and lead to progressive failure. The ideal viscosity at a bearing is around 10cSt or slightly higher depending on various factors such as the load, rpm and design or dimensions of the bearing shells. Much higher than this and drag results; much lower than this and boundary lubrication issues occur. (Image — MAHLE Clevite Inc.)
Crank journal size on the 5.0L is 2.082" according to Ford Performance engine spec sheet. Factory clearance range is 0.0011 out to 0.0027 according to the shop manual. Ecoboost 2.3L clearance is 0.0011 out to 0.0020, a bit tighter. Ecoboost calls for 5W-30 for regular use and sees a higher load per a bearing, my EB ran up to 25 PSI peak boost with the Ford Performance Power Pack on it, manual calls for 5W-50 for track (2018's and up) to manage heat induced thinning (turbos run hot).How tight should the bearing clearances be in a high-perf or racing application? When running SAE 30 or thinner straight viscosity oil as well as modern multiviscosity oils, McKnight recommends a minimum 0.001-inch clearance for every 1-inch of shaft diameter:
The Euro spec is more than just an HTHS. Yes, the A3/B4 and C3 specs all call for an HTHS of >3.5, while SAE J300 only requires >2.9 for XW30. So, if you compare an A3/B4 XW30 to your typical SN XW30, you'll see they are both, in fact, still a 30 weight per J300, but the A3/B4 XW30 will retain its viscosity better as temperature increases above 100 C. This can be done with more VII or better base oil, of course. Anyway, A3/B4 gets you more than just a slightly higher HTHS; it also gets you a higher starting TBN and higher concentration of ZDDP (though not typically as high as HDEO). The difference in viscosity between a A3/B4 XW30 and an SN XW30 is tiny, vs the difference between an SN XW30 and, say, and SN XW40 or XW50, both of which perform satisfactorily as well. It's almost splitting hairs, as you are subdividing the 30 category into thin vs thick 30 and adding a little more "good stuff" to the Euro oil.... I see no harm in using a Euro spec oil, I just think it's over kill and your incurring more drag losses than are necessary, both in the bearings and elsewhere.
Redline 5W30 checks a lot of boxes. 3.7 HTHS, 6.0 NOACK, and ~1200 ppm Zinc.The Euro spec is more than just an HTHS. Yes, the A3/B4 and C3 specs all call for an HTHS of >3.5, while SAE J300 only requires >2.9 for XW30. So, if you compare an A3/B4 XW30 to your typical SN XW30, you'll see they are both, in fact, still a 30 weight per J300, but the A3/B4 XW30 will retain its viscosity better as temperature increases above 100 C. This can be done with more VII or better base oil, of course. Anyway, A3/B4 gets you more than just a slightly higher HTHS; it also gets you a higher starting TBN and higher concentration of ZDDP (though not typically as high as HDEO). The difference in viscosity between a A3/B4 XW30 and an SN XW30 is tiny, vs the difference between an SN XW30 and, say, and SN XW40 or XW50, both of which perform satisfactorily as well. It's almost splitting hairs, as you are subdividing the 30 category into thin vs thick 30 and adding a little more "good stuff" to the Euro oil.
Anyway, I reviewed some pretty conclusive testing a while back that indicated that lower viscosity actually reduces wear right up until the point of catastrophic failure. So, higher viscosity helps prevent failure, which generally happens in off-design operation or due to out-of-spec or poorly designed parts, but it also sacrifices long-term wear rates and fuel economy. Higher ZDDP reduces wear up until about 1400 ppm Phosphorus, but SN limits you to 800. Higher ZDDP actually also reduces fuel economy, but the difference is tiny. In a commuter vehicle with no defects and no off-design operation (overheat, bad gas detonation, LSPI, etc), I would say the optimum oil would be a 20 weight or less with 1000-1200 ppm Phosphorus. However, no such spec exists that I am aware of.