Another possible oil cooler failure

[Manders Mustang]

How come Ford are not following their own TSB? (or are they?)

"Check the engine oil and coolant system for contamination. Is the engine oil contaminated with engine coolant or coolant contaminated with oil?
Yes – proceed to Step 3.
No – proceed to Step 2."

Step three is new engine. So far as I recall, only Gibbo's just leaked externally. The two we've just seen @alan27 & @Jimboy2 ) have contaminated the coolant with oil. If they don't replace the engine in these circumstances I think I'd want an open ended guarantee that any future internal engine failure would be covered with a replacement engine. @alan27 are they replacing your engine?

[MENTION=20439]Jimboy2[/MENTION] is p1ssing oil up his drive way from the picture (His car not himself). [MENTION=21107]Wobs[/MENTION] was just a contamination of the coolant. But yeah, don't think gibbo's contaminated his coolant?

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[slowhand99]

[MENTION=20439]Jimboy2[/MENTION] is p1ssing oil up his drive way from the picture (His car not himself). [MENTION=21107]Wobs[/MENTION] was just a contamination of the coolant. But yeah, don't think gibbo's contaminated his coolant?

"Just" a contamination of the coolant = new engine. [MENTION=21107]Wobs[/MENTION], [MENTION=29907]alan27[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20439]Jimboy2[/MENTION] all have this.

 

[Manders Mustang]

"Just" a contamination of the coolant = new engine. @Wobs , @alan27 and @Jimboy2 all have this.

True, there's a chap on facebook (Austin) who had to have his engine flushed numerous times before it was fixed, as apparently once his car had come back from the dealers, it was full of oil again, so does sound like ford want to cut the corner on a new block by trying to clean it :lol:

 

[Jimboy2]

How come Ford are not following their own TSB? (or are they?)

"Check the engine oil and coolant system for contamination. Is the engine oil contaminated with engine coolant or coolant contaminated with oil?
Yes – proceed to Step 3.
No – proceed to Step 2."

Step three is new engine. So far as I recall, only Gibbo's just leaked externally. The two we've just seen [MENTION=29907]alan27[/MENTION] & [MENTION=20439]Jimboy2[/MENTION]) have contaminated the coolant with oil. If they don't replace the engine in these circumstances I think I'd want an open ended guarantee that any future internal engine failure would be covered with a replacement engine. [MENTION=29907]alan27[/MENTION] are they replacing your engine?

Due to this TSB I will be asking for a guarantee on this engine. I don't really like the thought of them replacing my engine without doing any other harm and I bet the lead time for a new engine is going to be looooooong. But I'm also gonna have a doubt in my mind of if any damage was caused internally. Will see what they say hopefully later or tomorrow.

 

[Gibbo205]

[MENTION=20439]Jimboy2[/MENTION] is p1ssing oil up his drive way from the picture (His car not himself). [MENTION=21107]Wobs[/MENTION] was just a contamination of the coolant. But yeah, don't think gibbo's contaminated his coolant?

I think maybe the TSB is wrong way round, why would they replace the engine for oil leaking into the coolant system? I think what they mean is the system must be fully flushed and hoses etc. if required changed and new tank etc.

The engine is at risk if coolant gets into the engine oil, the oil these cars run is already piss thin, it does not need thinning more with water.

My cars coolant showed early signs are minor contamination if you had a keen eye (slight oil film on top of coolant), otherwise to the unknown it looked fine, this is why I requested the entire system be flushed by Ford and what came out the system was still red/orange and the engine oil was just engine oil.

But yes the other three guys here have got major contamination and Jimboy's looks terrible, I'd want the engine oil dropped and inspected and potential engine replacements as that is MAJOR.

But I was fortunate, I drove to the wheel refurbishment place, no leak. They started the car up and drove it from its parking spot to their work bay, about 10 yards where it dribbled oil from its parking space into their unit.

They informed me, at first I thought they had done it!

I check oil level, was over half way, so I stuck in 1/2 litre to stick it just over max. Coolant had no oil in it.

I drove to Ford, 2-3 miles away, keeping revs under 1500, got there and oil was squirting from a hole in the cooler which developed from internally (clearly faulty batch) at this point there was a smear forming on top of the coolant in reservoir which untrained eye would not spot.

It took them nearly 7 weeks, but the entire coolant system was flushed and oil/filter change plus 3yr service pack thrown in.

But they snagged the gasked, so it leaked from gasket again, of course no contamination as it was fitment error and not part failure. So new gasket and re-fit, all good since, fingers crossed.

You guys with such huge contamination though, I'd want the engine oil analysing as it could of caused considerable engine wear especially if driven over several miles like that due to contamination or even worse low oil level.

 

[slowhand99]

They will probably source a new engine immediately; then wait 6 months for a suitable "12 volt marine wash down pump" to carry out the flushing procedure.

 

[Jimboy2]

Spoke to the dealer. 3rd time today they have called! Defo the oil cooler. Part will be here in 5-7 days. They will also stamp the service book for me which is good. They said the engine will be flushed and i will ask for a oil analysis done. no mentions of a new engine which I'm glad about tbh. May ask for an extended warranty due to this issue see what they say

 

[SteveS]

Not to mention the corrosive qualities of an oil/coolant mix coursing round the engine :(

Looks like I definitely won't be fitting the Mishimoto coolant reservoir anyway...

 

[Maoilearca]

Spoke to the dealer. 3rd time today they have called! Defo the oil cooler. Part will be here in 5-7 days. They will also stamp the service book for me which is good. They said the engine will be flushed and i will ask for a oil analysis done. no mentions of a new engine which I'm glad about tbh. May ask for an extended warranty due to this issue see what they say

Sounds good, but definitely get that extended warranty! Can you ask them if the replacement cooler is certified not to have problems (i.e., is different design/batch) from what it replaces? If so, I'll ask to have mine similarly replaced ASAP

 

[slowhand99]

Spoke to the dealer. 3rd time today they have called! Defo the oil cooler. Part will be here in 5-7 days. They will also stamp the service book for me which is good. They said the engine will be flushed and i will ask for a oil analysis done. no mentions of a new engine which I'm glad about tbh. May ask for an extended warranty due to this issue see what they say

So far so good; but I think it is worth enquiring in writing/email for a report on the failure and its relationship with the TSB. Just in case something lets go 1 day after the warranty expires. Although the oil will push into the cooling system (being higher pressure - I think that's right), as soon as the engine is switched off the oil pressure dies and the coolant pressure stays up (even increasing as the heat soak raises the temp) pushing water into the oil; this is why the TSB says contamination either way means a new engine. The important bit is to document that you don't think they've followed the TSB and for them to tell you they are happy not to. Then when it all goes pop the small claims court limit of £10k will pay the £7k for a crate engine and the rest for fitting and inconvenience.

Need you back out there matey; my ears have nearly recovered from the last time I saw you.

 

[Wobs]

[MENTION=20439]Jimboy2[/MENTION] is p1ssing oil up his drive way from the picture (His car not himself). [MENTION=21107]Wobs[/MENTION] was just a contamination of the coolant. But yeah, don't think gibbo's contaminated his coolant?

Mine dropped oil up the dual carriageway and on my driveway, it went everywhere.

 

[Gibbo205]

Mine dropped oil up the dual carriageway and on my driveway, it went everywhere.

How did your coolant reservoir look? Like Jimboys or was it still red/orange?

I guess its a question of how much coolant contamination needs to enter the engine oil to actually cause engine damage?

For instance an engines oil gets diluted over time by fuel dilution, thinning of the oil and fuel is even thinner than water so has a more harmful effect on the oil, so a few drips of water entering the engines oil would probably do no harm to engine wear especially if the car was not being pushed hard as in say a failure on the race track.

Still if I was Jimboy due to the major contamination he clearly has I'd want the oil dropped and a sample sent for analysis. If it shows no water dilution then fine.

If however the report shows water dilution of the oil, I'd want Ford to put in writing why the TSB was not followed so that in the event of an engine failure out of warranty due to excessive wear he had in writing proof of reason for failure and could take Ford to court and hopefully win.

Also as others have requested please check with Ford if this issue is batch related and if so what was changed on later revisions of the oil cooler to prevent it happening?

My feeling is this impacts all RHD cars as the oil cooler is absolute cheap piece of crud and is position next to the cats, so I feel they are all a ticking time bomb.

I would far rather get an oil to air cooler fitted on my car to longevity, performance and reliability reasons. As such I hope a proper RHD developed kit comes out in the future that is a bolt-on fit and compatible with popular super charger kits.

 

[slowhand99]

Mine dropped oil up the dual carriageway and on my driveway, it went everywhere.

Did it all come from the cooler, or was some blown out through the cooling system overflow/pressure relief?

 

[Gibbo205]

Did it all come from the cooler, or was some blown out through the cooling system overflow/pressure relief?

When mine was leaking, we put it on a ramp, allowed it to heat up to full temp and then gave it some rev blips and from below it literally gushed out from this pin sized hole in the cooler and it was just oil gushing out, no coolant and the reservoir was fine showed no signs, but once we had finished and let the car cool, there was a minor oil film on top of the coolant, hard to see but it was there. So my car got flushed, my coolant reservoir is still clean and clear today, whereas others reported even after the flush the coolant still turned brown again and it took several flushes to get it out and even then some still complain of it going off colour. I got lucky as it was spotted and not driven whilst the cooler had a hole in it, apart from the 2-3 mile gentle drive to Ford.

If it had happened on track or high RPM driving it would empty the engine of all oil within minutes, in the 2-3 mile drive and this revving up on the ramp the car dropped 1/2 litre of oil and bear in mind the 2-3 mile drive was super gentle at sub 1500rpm as I knew it was leaking and was driven from cold due to oil being thicker when cold so leaking less.

Also with just 1/2 oil lost the mess on the underside of the car was huge it looked more like way more but it takes just 100-200ml of oil to make a proper mess of a car on the underside as it just goes everywhere and spreads so thinly.

I hate to think what would of happened if never spotted, worse case is car could go up in flames if enough oil gets onto the red hot exhaust. But certainly possible to either lose to much oil causing engine damage or as some are seeing contamination could cause oil thinning and engine damage that way.

In short Ford fucked up it seems on RHD with a critical engine component, I do hope its just a bad batch but my gut feeling is they are all effected and Ford are just hoping they won't fail.

 

[Wobs]

Did it all come from the cooler, or was some blown out through the cooling system overflow/pressure relief?

To tell you the truth, I don't know, when I originally got home, there was only oil on the driveway, then after an hour waiting for the lowloader to arrive, there was coolant on the drive as well, and the mess on the car was all around the lower engine bay area, and nothing further up.

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