Potential oil cooler failure - Aug 2017 shadow edition

[FMJ]

Cheers for the reply.

the engine mount is uneffected by the silly oil manifold we have.

If you look at the pic of the block with the manifold attached you can see the engine mount bolts pass through it. Hence the RHD mount sits about a inch off the block which is taken up by the manifold. If you were to remove the manifold as some people have in OZ you would need the US engine mount which goes straight on the block. Otherwise the mount wouldn’t touch the block on its bottom bolts. Or you could cut the oil manifold to turn it effectively into a spacer for the mount to block. But this would be permanent. Hopefully that makes sense.

I get your other points however.

If you mount the cooler so it can drain with gravity it will be empty at some point. So next time the thermostat opens won’t there be a period of time that the oil system has all the air from the empty cooler pushed through it? Meaning a lack of oil until the cooler and pipes fill and the air vents into the block?

As I said I’m no expert so may be getting it wrong.

The RHD cooler is clearly crap. The way it works should be fine as loads of cars use that method.... unfortunately Fords cooler design perhaps coupled with its location is not up to the job. I just don’t want to swap a potential failure point for a DIY solution that may be another failure point. Hence trying to understand it all.

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[hinch]

its a vented oil system the air pushes through and goes straight out the breathers no biggie the engine mount is no biggie just put a little spacer/stack of washers/drilled bit of cut off/cut the old oil chunk etc its not exactly a problem that needs solving rather something that needs 5 minutes of work to rectify. the hardest part of all of this is running lines around the place, and creating mounting brackets the rest of it is simple and has been done on thousands of cars before no need to worry.

 

[FMJ]

its a vented oil system the air pushes through and goes straight out the breathers.

The supply of oil for the engine comes through the filter, goes through the galleries and this supplies bearings etc. Then after the pressure has been lost when the oil drains back to sump then it can vent away any air. This is too late as the part you don’t want air is in the galleries etc. It would mean big end bearings for example spinning on air for a short amount of time. Now it may be a very small amount of time but it’s still a concern and one the OE system doesn’t have. People pre-fill their filters and pre-charge oil pumps with grease on rebuilds to prevent this from happening as it’s known to be bad for engine health. I wouldn’t want to incorporates a system that does it on a regular basis.

I do want to get rid of the OE set-up but until somebody can explain to me how their system avoids this (and maybe they can?) I am cautious about changing things.

 

[v8hgt]

I am with you on this. My original solution was the US engine mount change and the mmr plate shown above with a laminova oil water heat exchanger to replace the stock cooler. I’ve got the US engine mount in the garage already. all I need is the mmr plate, an in-line oil filter boss and the laminova all mounted under the air box. This is a lot of fabrication work so I may go with the new Nemesis solution and add a way of priming the cooler at each oil change.

 

[hinch]

The supply of oil for the engine comes through the filter, goes through the galleries and this supplies bearings etc. Then after the pressure has been lost when the oil drains back to sump then it can vent away any air. This is too late as the part you don’t want air is in the galleries etc. It would mean big end bearings for example spinning on air for a short amount of time. Now it may be a very small amount of time but it’s still a concern and one the OE system doesn’t have. People pre-fill their filters and pre-charge oil pumps with grease on rebuilds to prevent this from happening as it’s known to be bad for engine health. I wouldn’t want to incorporates a system that does it on a regular basis.

I do want to get rid of the OE set-up but until somebody can explain to me how their system avoids this (and maybe they can?) I am cautious about changing things.

i've got 100k+ track miles on a judd built engine with exactly the setup of a take off with thermostatic remote mount and the bearings are like brand new not a single mark on them as of last years strip down. so i'll go with you're worrying too much.

 

[FMJ]

i've got 100k+ track miles on a judd built engine with exactly the setup of a take off with thermostatic remote mount and the bearings are like brand new not a single mark on them as of last years strip down. so i'll go with you're worrying too much.

Any chance you could describe what components and the order they go in? And where they are located/which orientation etc. 100k is massive for track miles! Your set-up may be great but equally simply mounting something lower or doing something else different could result in a less reliable system. Do you see what I mean? Your description could be setup several ways.

I’m not picking arguments I genuinely want someone to come up with a system that has no issues/potential issues. Saying I have done something and it’s been fine is just the same as saying that only 0.0001% of cars will ever have a failure on the standard system. That figure is plucked from thin air but the chances of failure are very low and you could apply the same logic there.

If anything I would like someone to say I’m wrong and explain it to me.

 

[hinch]

ok so on the engine the filter mount point sits at the bottom in a recess of the sump

so the filter was removed and a takeoff plate goes on the filter with 2x an8's coming from it they go to a thermostatic remote mount filter plate where i also have my oil temp and oil pressure sensors mounted. this sits at around the same height as the alternator (about half way up the block ish) from there it loops out 2 more lines an8's again to a passive cooler that sits in the passenger side wing. as i understand how it works oil goes from block to filter and when not up to temp the cooler loop is closed so its just straight through filter and return, when its up to temp the remote block changes the flow so instead of going straight to filter it goes straight to cooler then to filter then returns.

When we do the oil changes (after every track day) all i do is let it run so its up to temp once its up i pop the plug out and let it drain (yes be careful you can get burnt!) once its drained new filter on pre-fill the filter but don't pre-fill the cooler just because its a closed cooler there's no way to pre-fill it short of popping a line and pouring it in. then fill the rest of the car as normal the entire system takes about 1l more oil than the standard system but we also halved the size of the sump so it actually takes a little less overall.

Let it run to get it back up to temperature then let it settle for 10 mins or so then top up if required invariably it always needs a little more in it but never much.

I've had the car for 15 years now so the engine has been beat on pretty seriously over the years its a v6 nasp revs out to about 10k ish (ex-btcc car) it did most of the 2001 season i believe then became mine shortly after.

edit just checked the judd site as I wanted to see if i could find a good picture of it for you and turns out there's actually a picture of my car on their engines page anyway http://juddpower.com/our-engines/gt-touring-car/

 

[FMJ]

Cheers for posting all that!

 

[Gloucesternige]

Just bringing this back from the depths of history....

Can someone please confirm the standard oil cooler set up on the RHD Coyote engine has no thermostat? It certainly looks that way to me?

If this is the case, surely there have been instances where the cooler has blown on cold start?

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