AFD ProFlex E85 Commander Journey w/ GT350

[rag11]

If you consider O2 emissions control, then i guess yea its emissions, your probably running lean.

I mean it's all kinda tied together. Most of the time if you have 02 sensor issues it's a Cat, and cats are only there for what? so I just kinda group it even though it's more complicated than that. I just meant it's nothing inherently mechanical, and almost surely not ignites. But you're definitely right, I'm going to be running lean, and I know that's going to be the issue. I can deal with a light for a day and protect the engine with mixture closer to manu specs and get the code tomorrow just to show AFD it's the system and not my car. But I definitely want to post what I find just to help others out who may be having this issue. Its not the most common system and on an even less common car, so info isnt the most accessible.

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[JAJ]

If the engine was actually running lean, it would go to limp mode. The ECU is successfully compensating for the higher ethanol level, but because it's requiring more than 25% extra fuel than normal, the ECU is triggering a code. The ECU wants you to know that it knows that you're running the wrong fuel. As for mixture, cats, etc, it's doing what it needs to do to protect them.

 

[rag11]

I just feel that at idle with a warm engine (just drove 5 miles) with 40% ethanol, should my ratio be less than 14.1? I'm no genius with this stuff but if the 14+ is normal with gasoline, with ethanol it should be a little richer of a ratio if operating correctly right? Or is there something I'm not considering?

 

[JAJ]

I just feel that at idle with a warm engine (just drove 5 miles) with 40% ethanol, should my ratio be less than 14.1? I'm no genius with this stuff but if the 14+ is normal with gasoline, with ethanol it should be a little richer of a ratio if operating correctly right? Or is there something I'm not considering?

The actual air:fuel ratio for complete combustion is 14:1 or so for E10 gas, and 9.8:1 for E85. Putting it in concrete terms, to burn a pound of E10 gas, you need 14 pounds of air. To burn a pound of E85 you only need 9.8 pounds of air. Engine power production is determined by airflow, not fuel flow, so to generate comparable levels of power, you have to burn a lot more E85 than E10. Expect your gas mileage to drop about 30% or so.

For a blend that's E40, expect the AFR to be around 12 or so at lambda=1.0. Whether the dashboard gauge will read that or not is an open question - I don't know. That's why I'm focusing on fuel trims - they tell the real story inside the engine.

 

[rag11]

The actual air:fuel ratio for complete combustion is 14:1 or so for E10 gas, and 9.8:1 for E85. Putting it in concrete terms, to burn a pound of E10 gas, you need 14 pounds of air. To burn a pound of E85 you only need 9.8 pounds of air. Engine power production is determined by airflow, not fuel flow so to generate comparable levels of power, you have to burn a lot more E85 than E10. Expect your gas mileage to drop about 30% or so.

Okay so a little more research on my part helped. So the built in guage actually just reads lambda and puts it into regular gas AFR. So if I'm in flux between 13.9 and 14.4 sitting at idle I'm right around target?

 

[mmakam2]

Update from my side:

very weird.. or not because it's a bad unit.

With module plugged in, I get about a 6% variance in fuel trims from bank 1 and 2

Module unplugged, zero to little variance between banks.

 

[mmakam2]

Okay so a little more research on my part helped. So the built in guage actually just reads lambda and puts it into regular gas AFR. So if I'm in flux between 13.9 and 14.4 sitting at idle I'm right around target?

Yes 14 is right around target, but idle AFRs are not what counts for engine damage or efficiency for that matter. Under load is what matters.

With E70 in the tank mine idled at 14 with the unit unplugged.

 

[rag11]

Yes 14 is right around target, but idle AFRs are not what counts for engine damage or efficiency for that matter. Under load is what matters.

With E70 in the tank mine idled at 14 with the unit unplugged.

I unplugged the unit and drove around a mile and didnt notice any obvious difference with 40%. My air fuel mixture seemed to do the same thing. Idle at 14.1...hard acceleration drop to 10-12, come to rest it sits at 12 for 5 or 6 seconds and comes back to 14ish. I'm suspecting the unit isnt doing anything/enough, and the ecu is doing it's best to adjust but eventually pops the light, especially at higher ethanol levels. We'll see though.

 

[mmakam2]

I unplugged the unit and drove around a mile and didnt notice any obvious difference with 40%. My air fuel mixture seemed to do the same thing. Idle at 14.1...hard acceleration drop to 10-12, come to rest it sits at 12 for 5 or 6 seconds and comes back to 14ish. I'm suspecting the unit isnt doing anything/enough, and the ecu is doing it's best to adjust but eventually pops the light, especially at higher ethanol levels. We'll see though.

no point speculating until you check in the codes. Mine threw a lean code on bank 2 with the unit plugged in, it eventually threw lean on bank 1 as well after unplugging the unit. Seems like it's adding some fuel on bank 1 and none on bank 2

 

[JAJ]

Okay so a little more research on my part helped. So the built in guage actually just reads lambda and puts it into regular gas AFR. So if I'm in flux between 13.9 and 14.4 sitting at idle I'm right around target?

i thought that might be the case. The dash gauge is telling you that you're at lambda = 1, which is where it should be. That's what I meant when I said that the ECU was coping with the non-standard fuel. It can reach the essentially "perfect" lambda = 1.0 with fuel trims, but it's not happy having to do it.

 

[JAJ]

no point speculating until you check in the codes. Mine threw a lean code on bank 2 with the unit plugged in, it eventually threw lean on bank 1 as well after unplugging the unit. Seems like it's adding some fuel on bank 1 and none on bank 2

Sounds like it's programmed for the wrong car - maybe a four cylinder so it adjusts cylinders 1-4 and doesn't change 5-8. It's a theory but there's no reason to believe that it's not something else too. After all, it's only adjusting cyls 1-4 by 6% when the extra fuel should be more like 30%. It makes no sense.

 

[mmakam2]

Sounds like it's programmed for the wrong car - maybe a four cylinder so it adjusts cylinders 1-4 and doesn't change 5-8. It's a theory but there's no reason to believe that it's not something else too. After all, it's only adjusting cyls 1-4 by 6% when the extra fuel should be more like 30%. It makes no sense.

Agreed, it makes ZERO sense. Maybe its operating on 1 or 2 cylinders? Now i have to twiddle thumbs until the new unit arrives.

 

[mmakam2]

For those of you who are buying bluetooth modules, make sure it supports MS-SCAN protocol. Some of the cheaper ones won't and may not get all the data as MS-SCAN capable ones. I have a cheap elm bluetooth one, but i just bought this one. Mostly so I can play with some of the forscan features.

https://www.amazon.com/OHP-Forscan-...N&qid=1562644064&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1

 

[rag11]

Well, my scanner is about to get here and my code cleared itself driving to work and back last night after diluting to 36% with the commander unit still installed. I feel that should tell you it's not working right regardless....but I was hoping to plug in while the code was still up. Seems like the Ford ECU can adjust enough for 36% but not 60%(when I got the light) because the proflex is inop.

 

[lightrules]

my replacement should be here tomorrow.

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