A10 overheating on highway pulls

[sdskinner73]

I took notes as soon as I could after this happened. This is my second 10 speed. First one had 3.15 gears and never once had an issue. The current car is a 3.55 car with the A10. Threads I’m finding are specifically for track use.
I was cruising and switched to S+ mode from normal, then went WOT.

At about 130, the car started sending smoke out the back. Not a lot, but noticeable. So I checked the gauges after I slowed down and came to a stop. Results below. It was a hot day (92F). From what I’ve read, the trans temp is inferred from the rear diff(?). Really annoying since the coyotes strong point is pulling in the higher speeds and this has happened twice now. Is there something wrong with this trans? I have a lifetime powertrain warranty on it, but I can’t exactly take it in and say it smokes at 130 either. Not sure what route to go next. Future goals for next year were a tune and some basic stuff, with ESS down the line. This needs fixed before I do any of that, of course.


Cylinder head temp jumps from about 205to 210 somewhere up to about 212.



Inlet air temp went from about 98 to 112.



Engine oil pressure said normal.



engine oil temp normal.



trans. Oil temp jumped all the way up to about 235.



voltage never really changed much vacuum never changed much.



I suspect the trans is getting too hot and that’s what’s causing the smoking, but it only happens every at around 125-130, but not every time I’ve done this.



Just got oil changed that day, about 70 miles prior. Only mods are MBRP cat back, drop in filter K&N.



Sport plus mode. 3.55 gears. A10.

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[sdskinner73]

To add, the trans didn’t want to shift over about 2500 anymore. The car quickly cooled back down to normal and I never had another issue that day. It has never set off a CEL either. But it’s very much like a limp mode at the time. It acts like it never happened after a few seconds.

 

[glockholiday]

None of the numbers you posted for temps are too high for anything. Yes 235 on the trans is higher than normal but not anywhere near a number that would cause a problem. Hmmmmm?

 

[sdskinner73]

None of the numbers you posted for temps are too high for anything. Yes 235 on the trans is higher than normal but not anywhere near a number that would cause a problem. Hmmmmm?

That’s the number after I stopped and noticed it was cooling pretty quick. I can only assume it was higher than that at the time. The fact it’s happening and just continuing on like nothing happened is weird. Doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve never witnessed it hit over 250, but I don’t think it’s unlikely based on how fast it cools down. Also makes me think it’s reading something wrong. Kind of lost.

 

[cerbomark]

first check the trans fluid level. The newer auto transmissions are fluid level sensitive more so than in the past I believe .

 

[Cobra Jet]

The only way you’re going to get “smoke” is:

- Out the exhaust and this would be from the engine, not trans. It would be either oil or coolant (head gasket) smoke.

- Any fluid leaks where the fluid is hitting the exhaust manifolds, hot engine, OR the exhaust piping under the car.

- Out of the rear diff vent if sprayed on hot exhaust

- Out of the 10R80 vent:
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resourc...hooting-ford-10-speed-atf-venting-overheating

- Brake smoke from excessive brake use at high speed (ie: track events) or sudden highway stop situation where the car is slowed drastically from high speed. Dragging brake calipers or emergency brake.

Since we were not with you on your runs and there isn’t any video to review, the determination has to be made as to where the actual smoke was coming from after the pull…

Are you sure it wasn’t out the tail pipes?

Have you looked under the car for any fluid leaks or staining/witness marks on floor pans/exhaust from fluid blow by?
——

There's quite a few M6G members who track their 10R80’s pretty hard (ex: drag racing, road racing and auto cross) and I’ve seen posts RE: overheating where the trans goes into limp mode, but no mention of a smoking transmission.

I would investigate further and look at the rear diff and trans vents, also look for any fluid seepage from engine to rear of vehicle.
—-
As for taking it into a Dealership, as long as the vehicle has not been tuned you can request them to look at the trans by merely stating it’s not shifting correctly within its parameters when hot (ie: warmed up to or above operating temps).

Be forewarned though - iIf the car has been tuned, even if flashing the tune back to stock - they will know it had a tune…. And recently there’s been quite a few warranty denials due to the Ford Service Centers finding the PCM was previously tuned. There is no way to hide a tuned PCM even with a flashback. IMO, Ford is really cracking down on major warranty claims by investigating the events and issues more closely.

 

[sdskinner73]

The only way you’re going to get “smoke” is:

- Out the exhaust and this would be from the engine, not trans. It would be either oil or coolant (head gasket) smoke.

- Any fluid leaks where the fluid is hitting the exhaust manifolds, hot engine, OR the exhaust piping under the car.

- Out of the rear diff vent if sprayed on hot exhaust

- Out of the 10R80 vent:
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resourc...hooting-ford-10-speed-atf-venting-overheating

- Brake smoke from excessive brake use at high speed (ie: track events) or sudden highway stop situation where the car is slowed drastically from high speed. Dragging brake calipers or emergency brake.

Since we were not with you on your runs and there isn’t any video to review, the determination has to be made as to where the actual smoke was coming from after the pull…

Are you sure it wasn’t out the tail pipes?

Have you looked under the car for any fluid leaks or staining/witness marks on floor pans/exhaust from fluid blow by?
——

There's quite a few M6G members who track their 10R80’s pretty hard (ex: drag racing, road racing and auto cross) and I’ve seen posts RE: overheating where the trans goes into limp mode, but no mention of a smoking transmission.

I would investigate further and look at the rear diff and trans vents, also look for any fluid seepage from engine to rear of vehicle.
—-
As for taking it into a Dealership, as long as the vehicle has not been tuned you can request them to look at the trans by merely stating it’s not shifting correctly within its parameters when hot (ie: warmed up to or above operating temps).

Be forewarned though - iIf the car has been tuned, even if flashing the tune back to stock - they will know it had a tune…. And recently there’s been quite a few warranty denials due to the Ford Service Centers finding the PCM was previously tuned. There is no way to hide a tuned PCM even with a flashback. IMO, Ford is really cracking down on major warranty claims by investigating the events and issues more closely.

Mine has never been tuned to my knowledge. If it has, it was before I owned it. My warranty is through the aftermarket, so ford is out on this one.
The smoke always comes from the tailpipe. Engine is never excessively hot. I wasn’t able this time, but the first time, I looked under the car and nothing was leaking that I could see. Coolant reservoir is at max fill. I’ll read into that 10r80 vent. Never heard of that. I am assuming it is related to the trans because the trans is having the issues immediately. It’s almost like it decides it won’t do anything more and has to be normal. But since I did a single pull, I doubt I was asking that much out of it. Only thing I can think of is maybe I started in too high of a gear to begin with? I don’t have the digital dash, but I was already cruising when I started. I would guess that the trans was probably in 10 for efficiency purposes and never downshifted.

 

[GTP]

If the engine temp (CHT) goes above ~240F then the trans will exhibit "symptoms" which is really just limp mode.

A10 fluid level is kinda critical and quite tricky to check yourself.

@gone_n_60 has had a similar experience on track. Your event does not sound as stressful as a track day however.

Where in Indiana are you? The best dealership service and most knowledgeable A10 tech are at Ray Skillman Southside Ford.

 

[sdskinner73]

If the engine temp (CHT) goes above ~240F then the trans will exhibit "symptoms" which is really just limp mode.

A10 fluid level is kinda critical and quite tricky to check yourself.

@gone_n_60 has had a similar experience on track. Your event does not sound as stressful as a track day however.

Where in Indiana are you? The best dealership service and most knowledgeable A10 tech are at Ray Skillman Southside Ford.

Northside. Ray skull man was pretty rude and argumentative last time I went in to buy a car a few years back, so I’m not really interested in giving them any business. I got this one through Tipton ford. I don’t doubt they can get it corrected, but more so trying to figure out what exactly the issue is. I get that it was 92 degrees outside. But my last trans never once had this issue at any point, so something is not right.

 

[EFI]

While 235* TOT should be ok for it's survival, something is going on as I cannot for the life of me understand how it got this hot on the street. You either have very low fluid, or some sort of blockage in your cooling system.

I have never seen my TOT go over 196* on the street, even when having "fun* on the hottest of days. And once I go back to cruising, the temp drops like a rock.

The only time I've seen it go over 200* is when I'm on track and I am WOT for several laps, but even then it tops out at 215-217* towards the end of the session. For you to have gotten to 235* either you were WOT for 20 minutes straight (which I doubt that's even possible on the street unless you're actively in a police chase) or you have cooling issues. I would check the fluid level and the cooling brick that it's all working.

 

[sdskinner73]

Got it thank you. I’ll probably schedule with Tipton and see what they say. I agree, getting this hot is very abnormal and something is going on with the cooling. I have their lifetime powertrain warranty, (it’s more insurance than a warranty), but worst case, it costs me $200.
I know there are issues with this trans, but this is weird. Both times have been on a pull. First one was longer, but this one was less than 30 seconds. Before I throw money at cooling mods, I can let them decide what to do with it. Seems my cheaper option up front. Worst case, they replace the whole trans and I still only pay $200. Or I have to change the cooler for about $800 myself.

 

[Robottrainer]

I dont think it should ever see 235 unless its taking a severe beating. Even going down the highway at high speed shouldnt elevate the temp that much. The trans has an independent temp sensor in the trans itself. It does not rely on the diff temp as they are separate. Is the smoke coming out the tail pipe or from the rear of the car? Did the trans fluid come out the vent and spray on the exhaust pipe. you would see trans fluid all over the underside of the car.

 

[sdskinner73]

I dont think it should ever see 235 unless its taking a severe beating. Even going down the highway at high speed shouldnt elevate the temp that much. The trans has an independent temp sensor in the trans itself. It does not rely on the diff temp as they are separate. Is the smoke coming out the tail pipe or from the rear of the car? Did the trans fluid come out the vent and spray on the exhaust pipe. you would see trans fluid all over the underside of the car.

I don’t know exactly where it’s coming from, I think tailpipe, solely based on what I can see from the window. I’ve been under the car and never seen fluid sprayed anywhere.
Good to know about the temp sensor!

 

[Robottrainer]

I don’t know exactly where it’s coming from, I think tailpipe, solely based on what I can see from the window. I’ve been under the car and never seen fluid sprayed anywhere.
Good to know about the temp sensor!

I think the smoke is unrelated to the trans if it is coming out of the tail pipe. Now the question is what is it? oil? Coolant....

 

[GTP]

Northside. Ray skull man was pretty rude and argumentative last time I went in to buy a car a few years back, so I’m not really interested in giving them any business. I got this one through Tipton ford. I don’t doubt they can get it corrected, but more so trying to figure out what exactly the issue is. I get that it was 92 degrees outside. But my last trans never once had this issue at any point, so something is not right.

I don't care for their sales team much myself. Do not prejudge service based on sales. Again their A10 tech is the best around.

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