Covid Shots

[peoples1234]

Now you are bringing Oranges into a discussion about Apples.

Well, you brought up your immunity to chickenpox. I was just trying to provide you with an example that it is possible that a vaccine can provide a better immune response than one developed through a natural course of the disease. Hoping that maybe then you might just consider the possibility that vaccines can be better tools than you are giving them credit for, that's all.

Sponsored

 

[K4fxd]

I never said a vaccine was a bad tool. If I implied that, well I didn't mean to.

You do realize that very soon we will be seeing COVID-21, COVID-21 type A. COVID xxx Type B, etc... In other words, there will be multiple variants like we already have observed.

Time will tell. If and when my Dr reccomends that I get a covid shot I will consider it and most likely will get it.

I will not get it so I get a card that allows me into a movie theater or ball park, that is just to biblical for me. Is that last statement irrational, maybe but that is a choice based on belief, so I made 2 choices based on feelings.

To me and my personal experience from getting and recovering from covid 19, it is just another cold virus. For others it is much worse, I get that.

I'm not worried.

 

[Burkey]

I'm open to changing my mind. It just will not happen if someone tells me my concerns are nonsense and then does not back that up.

I asked my Dr if I should get the vaccine, he said not at this time, no.

I'll believe him over any internet expert.

Did you ask why he doesn’t recommend a vaccine for you “at this time“ ?

 

[OnThree]

All these e docs are just lol

 

[K4fxd]

Did you ask why he doesn’t recommend a vaccine for you “at this time“ ?

Yes.

Because of my age and the fact I had mild symptoms. He also had concerns about the long term effects of this new type of vaccine.

My sister is a MD and says the same thing.

 

[Burkey]

Yes.

Because of my age and the fact I had mild symptoms. He also had concerns about the long term effects of this new type of vaccine.

My sister is a MD and says the same thing.

My mother had covid, very mild symptoms and got the vaccine. She is in her 80's. My sister scolded her and my mother said, I'm not to worried about long term complications. She also buys into the vaccine is better mantra. Some of my grand kids live with me and mom says not to vax them. Of course they also had it.

Each of us has to weigh the pros and cons of this. Had I not had the Covid infection I might have gotten the vaccine. As it sits I have immunity right now, so my not taking a shot has opened up a shot for someone who may not have immunity.

I am in a high risk category, so qualified for first round shots.

There is no doubt in my mind that the urgency/necessity of vaccination will vary from person to person.....70+ male living in an area with extremely high infection rates vs 20 y.o. female living in an area where there hasn’t been a single recorded infection for 6 months (for example).
I asked because plenty of people simply take the good doctors word without seeking clarity behind the reasoning.
Cheers

 

[K4fxd]

I edited my post after you quoted me so I will clarify. My grand kids had the covid virus. Verified by testing. They both had mild symptoms that lasted one day. They were required to miss 2 weeks of school. Any other year and they would have been allowed to return to school after 24 hours fever free. Without a mask and without 6 foot distancing.

Looks like Ohio is changing that to 3 feet.

 

[K4fxd]

I'm afraid all this mask wearing, social distancing, hand washing, disinfecting of things, is going to cause a reduction in our children's immune systems. I don't know one kid who doesn't eat dirt or sand.

Just the opposite of what we need. Unless you think we need to reduce our population numbers.

 

[Burkey]

I'm afraid all this mask wearing, social distancing, hand washing, disinfecting of things, is going to cause a reduction in our children's immune systems. I don't know one kid who doesn't eat dirt or sand.

Just the opposite of what we need. Unless you think we need to reduce our population numbers.

I don’t follow the logic here.
Let’s assume for a moment that the methods you’ve described are in fact 100% effective. A person avoids infection from virus A at time B. Great. At time C they then see infection A and their body responds to it the exact same way that it would’ve at time A.
What am I missing?
Are you thinking that earlier exposure to a virus is of benefit? Can you explain it to me?

 

[K4fxd]

Are you thinking that earlier exposure to a virus is of benefit? Can you explain it to me?

I'm going to bed now. If you are serious in your question, kids have immunity from mothers milk. After they stop nursing they eat dirt and other disgusting things to advance their immune systems.

Again not scientific evidence.

My kids. I let them eat dirt and never scolded them for playing in dirt.

My second wife made her kids take a bath every night and yelled at them everytime they got dirty.

My kids never got sick, hers were sick all the time. Still are.

 

[Burkey]

I'm going to bed now. If you are serious in your question, kids have immunity from mothers milk. After they stop nursing they eat dirt and other disgusting things to advance their immune systems.

Again not scientific evidence.

My kids. I let them eat dirt and never scolded them for playing in dirt.

My second wife made her kids take a bath every night and yelled at them everytime they got dirty.

My kids never got sick, hers were sick all the time. Still are.

My point was, what difference does the time of infection make? Eg. Get the common cold this year vs next?
Again, the underlying assumption is that the protocols are 100% effective, which they most certainly arent, bit it has no bearing on the argument being put forward.

Option A: Follow protocols during pandemic, reduce likelihood of catching covid, maybe skip a year of viruses that might otherwise infect you.

Option B: Business as usual, catch next years virus this year and run the risk of covid.

I don’t see the gain. Not being silly, I just don’t recognise how it‘s a debate.

What exactly do I gain by exposure to a virus 12 months earlier (for example)? Either way I’m going to be exposed and build antibodies (hopefully).

Phrased differently, have you ever thought “Geez I hope I get the flu this year instead of next year”?

 

[MagicMike]

All these e docs are just lol

False. Not here. Lol

 

[shogun32]

n other words, there will be multiple variants like we already have observed.

The problem with mass vaccination especially for a disease that is fully treatable and poses no harm without said vaccine, is it increases evolutionary pressure. To survive the virus has to find the chink in the armor. And when it does, your precious vax is rendered useless. Millions who were "safe" are now fresh attack targets. Just watch, it'll happen soon enough if the P1 isn't an example already. It's the same problem we have with antibiotic-resistant bacteria - we have 'mass antibiotic' programs and now we've got some serious nasties on our hands because all the ankle-biters were forced to evolve.

If you don't have a sterilizing vaccine, you do NOT mass-vax the population for purpose of "symptom relief" when perfectly cheap and established treatments exist that rely on/help the innate immunity. If and ONLY if you've got a Sterilizing vaccine do you broadcast that far and wide and thus successfully eradicate/nullify the bug. See Polio, MMR etc.

But unlike Polio or MMR, coronavirus are notoriously fickle and fast-moving. That's why the common cold has no vax - it changes too rapidly. So we just live with it, and let the body's defenses deal with it and our runny noses. 2-3 days and it's over without consequence. Imagine how vicious the common cold could become if we went after it with a non-sterilizing vax in a misguided effort to rid the world of runny noses.

This bug is only fatal to the OLD (>70) and unheathy (obese, vit-D deficient, heart/lung compromised). So why does anybody give 2 shits about the bug when the VAST majority of the population has either pre-existing immunity (immune before we even knew this bug was out), or can pop a couple of extremely safe and cheap drugs and whack it into irrelevance? Will there be the unfortunate few who succumb to it? Yup - 35-60,000 (USA) people of ALL ages die from the annual flu, vax'd or not. Some people just die from stupid shit. There's no changing it.

Why is the "so smart they can do no wrong" medical industry desperately applying evolutionary pressure to a mere nuisance bug to prompt it evolving stronger and more virulent? The SA strain took a big bite out of the "vax" so-called effectiveness and that happened BEFORE there were any "vaccinated" people running around. So what if thanks to Chinese gross incompetence and FroudXi financing their research we tack on another 30,000 deaths/yr of old and sick to the Flu tally? It's not great, no, but barely registers as a blip to the broader society.

I'd much rather not see Wuhan-19 progress to the point of MRSA where pea-shooter meds are rendered inadequate/ineffective.

 

[MagicMike]

The problem with mass vaccination especially for a disease that is fully treatable and poses no harm without said vaccine, is it increases evolutionary pressure. To survive the virus has to find the chink in the armor. And when it does, your precious vax is rendered useless. Millions who were "safe" are now fresh attack targets. Just watch, it'll happen soon enough if the P1 isn't an example already. It's the same problem we have with antibiotic-resistant bacteria - we have 'mass antibiotic' programs and now we've got some serious nasties on our hands because all the ankle-biters were forced to evolve.

If you don't have a sterilizing vaccine, you do NOT mass-vax the population for purpose of "symptom relief" when perfectly cheap and established treatments exist that rely on/help the innate immunity. If and ONLY if you've got a Sterilizing vaccine do you broadcast that far and wide and thus successfully eradicate/nullify the bug. See Polio, MMR etc.

But unlike Polio or MMR, coronavirus are notoriously fickle and fast-moving. That's why the common cold has no vax - it changes too rapidly. So we just live with it, and let the body's defenses deal with it and our runny noses. 2-3 days and it's over without consequence. Imagine how vicious the common cold could become if we went after it with a non-sterilizing vax in a misguided effort to rid the world of runny noses.

This bug is only fatal to the OLD (>70) and unheathy (obese, vit-D deficient, heart/lung compromised). So why does anybody give 2 shits about the bug when the VAST majority of the population has either pre-existing immunity (immune before we even knew this bug was out), or can pop a couple of extremely safe and cheap drugs and whack it into irrelevance? Will there be the unfortunate few who succumb to it? Yup - 35-60,000 (USA) people of ALL ages die from the annual flu, vax'd or not. Some people just die from stupid shit. There's no changing it.

Why is the "so smart they can do no wrong" medical industry desperately applying evolutionary pressure to a mere nuisance bug to prompt it evolving stronger and more virulent? The SA strain took a big bite out of the "vax" so-called effectiveness and that happened BEFORE there were any "vaccinated" people running around. So what if thanks to Chinese gross incompetence and FroudXi financing their research we tack on another 30,000 deaths/yr of old and sick to the Flu tally? It's not great, no, but barely registers as a blip to the broader society.

I'd much rather not see Wuhan-19 progress to the point of MRSA where pea-shooter meds are rendered inadequate/ineffective.

Thank you - I am now dumber for having read all this nonsense. The sheer number of false, misleading statements has given me a headache. In the name of avoiding an aneurysm - I am logging off for now. May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[sk47]

You are so close to understanding this topic. The answer is; genetic drift and genetic shifts.

This why you can catch an influenza infection every year. Many viruses - not just COVID-19 - have high levels of genetic drift and shifting events. Which is why there's a different, tweaked flu vaccine every year.

You do realize that very soon we will be seeing COVID-21, COVID-21 type A. COVID xxx Type B, etc... In other words, there will be multiple variants like we already have observed.

Hello; Much of what you write is correct but there is one basic flaw in the thinking. The vaccine out currently is designed only for the covid19 type of a few months ago when they first figured out the structure of the virus. The current vaccine is, we hope, effective against that strain.
After some time or more correctly after the virus has passed thru some number of hosts there very likely will be variants.
There already are some variants identified. It is hoped these new variants are not too different and will be taken care of by the current vaccines. This remains to ne verified.

So, back to the survivors of a natural infection. Just like the current vaccine immunity the survivors natural immunity is only for the virus type currently active. For the current covid19 strain natural immunity and vaccine immunity are much the same. Survivors of the current strain of covid19 do not need the current vaccine because they already have immunity for that particular strain.

Fast forward to when the covid19 has mutated a new strain for which the current vaccine in no longer effective. ( or has reduced effectiveness) Then the game starts all over again. Both the current natural survivors and the those currently vaccinated with the current vaccine will be vulnerable to becoming sick from the new strain. Then, just like the flu, a new version of a vaccine will have to be cooked up. Also like the flu there may turn out to be new strains every so often and so new vaccines every so often.

Summary; those who survived infection with the covid19 strain going around in the recent past do not need the current vaccine. They will need a new vaccine if a new strain shows up which is changed enough.

Sponsored