6MT vs Dual Clutch

[Cobra6185]

I had an E92 M3 and F82 M4 both with DCT before I got my GT350. I chose them originally because it is the superior transmission and gives max performance. As great as a DCT is, it's still boring compared to rowing your own gears. Driving those cars felt more like a video game whereas driving the GT350 is a true experience.

Curious if you were able to swing close to an even trade between the F82 and GT350? I'm looking at a few GT350s but its hard to stomach hefty depreciation on the Bimmer..

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[nastang87xx]

I have never seen him comment on potentially using (or not) a DCT in the GT350. I have seen him comment on why the TR3160 was chosen instead of the larger, heavier TR6060.


“Unless you are going to build a carbon-fiber-tubbed car there aren’t a lot of weight savings silver bullets,” Jamal Hameedi told us at last’s Los Angeles International Auto Show. “In order to get weight out or to offset weight add (from bigger brakes, wheels, and tires), it’s really about attention to detail and shaving a kilogram or a pound here and half a kilogram there. So we tried to have that philosophy on every new part we touched.”
Naturally, that philosophy trickled down to what transmission would fill the tunnel of the new GT350.
“The transmission, for sure, isn’t as stout as a 6060. This has got a dual-mass flywheel, which does ease the shock loads going into the trans,” he explained. “We never even thought of putting a 6060 in because they are way too heavy.”

Actually that may have been what I was referring to.

 

[Cobra6185]

So youre saying theres a chance...haha

 

[nastang87xx]

Considering cost...no.

 

[VoodooThomas]

Curious if you were able to swing close to an even trade between the F82 and GT350? I'm looking at a few GT350s but its hard to stomach hefty depreciation on the Bimmer..

Yeah with adm on the GT350 and depreciation on the M4 I did a straight trade for it.

 

[Rogue]

Zero interest in automatic sports cars at this point. I switch back between a 997S 6 speed and the GT350 Tremec 6 speed - which means I have two of the greatest manual transmissions made in the last 10 years (apart from the R8 gated).

I love every minute of driving these both on street and track - but I don't have heavy traffic where I live - if I was in a stop and go city I would probably want PDK.

 

[gww52]

All manual here.
The control is unbeatable.
Traffic is another story.
I always feel disconnected in a AT car.

 

[Mspeedster]

It's got to be an old school stick for me. Just more fun, plain and simple.

As good as a PDK Porsche might be, it's one of the reasons I'm not too excited with Porsche at the moment and have stuck with my trusty 997 Carrera S. Ditto for DCT in the M cars. The M2 stick is the only current offering I find mildly interesting.

 

[nastang87xx]

Make no mistake, I want a DCT car or a really well thought out auto like the ZF8 in the Charger Scat Pack or Hellcat or the F12 M6 or 650i. Just face it, it IS faster. and there is a satisfaction of blipping the trans perfectly. But a manual? Character and involvement. I want both experiences. Looking to get a Charger Scat Pack or a 650i Grand Coupe as a daily.

Speaking of...any of you guys have experiences in said realms? PM me.

 

[1mic]

I wonder how Ford/GM A10 compares to the 8 speed from ZF.

I'd love to see a DCT GT350(R) just to see how much quicker the R model will lap. But for me I would rather own the 6-speed manual.

 

[MCarsFan]

DCT is fast no question, but its jerky. That was the purpose of my OP. I can drive a lot smoother in my gt350.

 

[Minn19]

DCT is fast no question, but its jerky. That was the purpose of my OP. I can drive a lot smoother in my gt350.

Was this in your M5? The DCT was the same unit in my F8X M3 and M4 and I didn't have this issue. I definitely cannot shift as smooth in my GT350 as the DCT could, especially downshifting.

 

[Stuntman]

DCT is fast no question, but its jerky. That was the purpose of my OP. I can drive a lot smoother in my gt350.

It's not jerky when going through the gears, and you can make it quite smooth leaving from a stop if you play with the throttle properly. A PDK and current Ferrari gearboxes are far smoother leaving from a stop than BMWs Getrag units.

 

[Trackaholic]

I've driven a couple cars with the PDK, and found that they are just not for me. For a sporty car I want a regular stick shift. For a cruiser I still want the stick shift, but if I was forced to settle then a regular automatic would be fine. The PDK is amazing at shifting fast and smooth, but I don't like losing the third pedal.

I hope car companies continue to cater to those looking for the engaging experience rather than pure speed, and don't change everything to an automatic.

-T

 

[MCarsFan]

Was this in your M5? The DCT was the same unit in my F8X M3 and M4 and I didn't have this issue. I definitely cannot shift as smooth in my GT350 as the DCT could, especially downshifting.

Yes, this is my M5. It has the same DCT as the F8X, which I also used to own, which was also the same DCT in E9X M3.

I think many of you are confusing "crisp/quick" with "smooth".

When slowing down to a stop light, I can shift from 3rd to 2nd and modulate the clutch in such a way that you practically cannot feel any jerkiness. Then I put it in neutral for the last 5-6 mph (or 1st). In my M5, you do the same, there is always the downshift to 2nd which is clunky and jerky.

I'll give you another example (try this yourself). Say that you have a stop sign or a red light up on a hill. You are traveling towards the hill and eventually come to a stop, car's nose is pointing upwards. If you come to a full stop and wait 1-2 seconds, gyroscope in the car will detect the steep incline and put it in 1st. All good. HOWEVER, if you dont come to a stop but slowly move (i.e the creep mode), car will stay in 2nd and suddenly it will want to move to 1st. Then you will feel this weird motion of someone pushing you from the back. Not smooth at all.

Bottom line is, I can control the clutch slippage with my left foot. Depending on my speed, road conditions, throttle mode, etc, I can intuitively cater the use of clutch for my own unique situation and can control whether I want a very smooth shift or very quick/sporty shift. Yes I can probably wear the clutch a bit more, but the fact remains. If I want I can have my downshift take slightly longer by modulating the clutch resulting in a smoother operation. The computer on the other hand cannot do that. This is also why true AI will never work. One simple reason, you cannot teach computers instincts. What makes us human is our instincts and our ability to make unpredictable decisions.

Lastly, another thing that annoys the crap out of me in my DCT is the stupid throttle sensitivity. Now this may be more to do with the turbos rather than the DCT, but it adds to the overall driving experience being very poor in day to day driving. Basically if you are traveling on 1st gear and suddenly move your foot of the throttle car and lightly tap back on will jerk back and forth. It will do this so badly that you think something is wrong. In contrary, do the same in GT350, even in the drag strip mode, car doesnt suddenly jerk back and forth. Its butter smooth. This may be due to the pretensioned turbos, its a side effect of anti lag basically.

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