2021 Mach 1 CONFIRMED in Leaked Ford Document!!!

Discussion in 'Mustang S550 General Forums' started by JGillis, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. CurtisH

    CurtisH Well-Known Member

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    Ford offers a 3.5L RWD NA in the Transit.
     
  2. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Note - FCA doesn’t sell many if any Hemi-powered vehicles in Europe

    Tim K.: [paraphrasing] At FCA we see electrification as the new “fuel injection”. We will use electrification for performance enhancement, not just fuel economy.

    Me: You already have mild hybrids on some 5.7L applications. Are you suggesting we’ll see hybrids on other Hemis?

    Tim K: Yes. Electrification is the new fuel injection.

    John McElroy was also part of the discussion, and there were several other topics discussed. When that exchange was over, and Tim walked away to talk with someone else, John and I discussed the meaning of “electrification is the new fuel injection”. We both came to the conclusion that he meant when fuel injection first came to market, most people that it was too expensive and complicated to replace carburetors. Then John had to leave to co-moderate the panel discussion for the event.

    In the picture below, John is on the left and is co-moderating the future of performance discussion between Ed Piatek (C8 Chief Engineer), Carl Widmann, (I think you know who he is), and Tim Kuniskis black shirt, 2nd from right). Tim’s opening remarks included his “electrification is the new fuel injection” comments. He was apparently rehearsing it in the conversation with me and John. His explanation of what that meant was spot on with what John and I concluded.

    TLDR - FCA will be selling vehicles with hybrid Hemis in the US. Has nothing to do with Europe CO2.

    3BEF56F7-7F69-463F-BD0E-17EB847616C4.jpeg
     
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  3. shogun32

    shogun32 Well-Known Member

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  4. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Good point. Forgot all about that one. Still thinking it’s 3.5TT in F-150.
     
  5. Bikeman315

    Bikeman315 Well-Known Member

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  6. Spork3245

    Spork3245 Well-Known Member

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    Your post suggested hybrids exist mostly to increase mpg and that performance boosts were limited. I stated that it depends on the set-up then provided examples of each spectrum for clarity.
    $55-65k (my quoted price) isn’t exactly inline with an MSRP Bullitt. Where did you mention performance besides “not much”? Ford has already stated 30-35mpg for their hybrid Mustang iirc, as well as performance equal to or exceeding the current GT at the time of its release. As such, I stated ~30mpg+ and performance falling between the GT and GT500. I have no idea where you are extrapolating your data from, certainly not Ford’s own comments or real world examples of performance based hybrid systems.

    Here’s your post for a quick reminder of what you stated regarding performance and mpg in hybrid systems:
    The insinuation was clearly that hybrid systems barely boost mpg and aren’t effective at increasing performance. So, I replied mentioning it depends on the set-up, and (again), provided examples:
    You then responded with something about pricing of the two high-end examples and how Ford isn’t going to do a hybrid and will skip straight to electric... despite the company’s own statements.

    Will the Mach1 be a hybrid? No idea. Is it plausible? Yes. Could it have performance exceeding the current GT and provide a substantial increase to mpg while costing less than a GT500 which will likely be the “step above” it? Also, yes.
     
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  7. IronG

    IronG Well-Known Member

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    Did they say when or what the performance gains they were shooting for?
     
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  8. IronG

    IronG Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you read way to far into what I said from my very short blurb. I guess that is a consequence of posting in a forum. Your interpretation of what I said is pretty far off on what I was commenting on. I can see where you could twist it enough to make your assumptions though. The point I was trying to make was that for the cost, the benefits of a hybrid Mustang will either be very modest improvements or very costly with hopefully improved benefits. I was not intending to get into a debate on whether or not you can use hybrid tech to improve performance, MPG or both and if there were examples of both. The other thought article I was trying to convey was that if the improvements from going hybrid were small and the cost was more than non-hybrid, I would not be interested. If there is true value in spending more to get a hybrid equipped Mustang, I would at least be open to it. That was really the only points I was trying to make.
     
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  9. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Unfortunately they were not in the mood to make my job easier. :lipssealed:

    The amount of performance gain will be impacted primarily by the capacity of the electric motor. No one (not GM, Ford, or FCA) is telling us the size of the electric motors they are planning for performance applications. The Ford Explorer Hybrid has a 35 kW electric motor. I would expect the same or larger for Mustang, unless there are severe packaging restrictions.
     
  10. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo Super Moderator
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    If we take the Aviator as an example......

    3.0 TT V6
    400hp
    415lb/ft

    3.0 TT V6 Hybrid (GT)
    494hp
    640lb/ft

    :rockon:
     
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  11. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Exactly. The Aviator Grand Touring (Lincoln doesn’t openly call it a plug-in hybrid) has a 75 kW electric motor. I didn’t reference this wrt a Mustang Hybrid because being a plug-in hybrid, it will have a more powerful e-motor than a non-plugin hybrid. So the Mustang will likely have an e-motor with more than 35 kW, but probably less than 75 kW
     
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  12. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Performance measures added in red, not because people should be taking their Aviator to the strip, but to provide an indication how much performance can be impacted by electrification. In this case, a full second in both measures.
     
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  13. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo Super Moderator
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    Who needs a big block pushrod Ford motor? :wink:
     
  14. Hi-PO Stang

    Hi-PO Stang Well-Known Member

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    I do because I want one to add to my fleet,
     
  15. shogun32

    shogun32 Well-Known Member

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    I believe the late-night infomercials have a supplement for that. :)
     
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