2021 Mach 1 CONFIRMED in Leaked Ford Document!!!

[IronG]

Performance measures added in red, not because people should be taking their Aviator to the strip, but to provide an indication how much performance can be impacted by electrification. In this case, a full second in both measures.

That would not be to bad of a bounce, but I wonder what the cost would be. Just looking at the cost differences between the Aviator Reserve and Grand Touring, is about 12k. So probably somewhere in the 60-65k (a few k more if AT is required) range sound right? It seems you also need AWD (guessing the elec motor is powering the front wheels), so maybe 10k for adding the hybrid and 2 more if AWD is needed also. I wonder if the Mustang would require AWD. Also I would bet that it would require an AT tranny which would be a hard no for me.

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[martinjlm]

That would not be to bad of a bounce, but I wonder what the cost would be. Just looking at the cost differences between the Aviator Reserve and Grand Touring, is about 12k. So probably somewhere in the 60-65k (a few k more if AT is required) range sound right? It seems you also need AWD (guessing the elec motor is powering the front wheels), so maybe 10k for adding the hybrid and 2 more if AWD is needed also. I wonder if the Mustang would require AWD. Also I would bet that it would require an AT tranny which would be a hard no for me.

The Aviator Grand Touring is not just a hybrid, but a plug-in hybrid. A lot more battery, so a lot more cost. I think it’s around 13.4 kWh...maybe more. Compare to an Explorer Hybrid which has a 1.3kWh battery. Expect the price difference between a Mustang GT and a Mustang GT Hybrid (Mach I) to be closer to the price difference between an Explorer and an Explorer Hybrid, plus whatever other differentiation Ford adds to make it a Mach I.

 

[shogun32]

problem with hybrid is the size of the battery pack and weight. An extra 100lb under the rear seats is likely not fatal. You don't need a slushbox to support AWD. I think it would make sense for a 'beast mode' option that uses super-capacitors that are only good for 5 sec of effort for drag strip launches. With a 6MT and "auto start/stop" mode the driver would have to select Neutral which is likely asking way too much of the typical American driver. So AT is (or DCT) is the only reasonable solution. Press the pedal lightly the engine stays stopped and the Electric motors provide motive force thru the front wheels. Ask for more and the ICE fires and since both it and the AT are under computer control, can seamlessly rev-match/choose gear to add power via rear wheels.

 

[Hack]

Obviously you read way to far into what I said from my very short blurb. I guess that is a consequence of posting in a forum. Your interpretation of what I said is pretty far off on what I was commenting on. I can see where you could twist it enough to make your assumptions though. The point I was trying to make was that for the cost, the benefits of a hybrid Mustang will either be very modest improvements or very costly with hopefully improved benefits. I was not intending to get into a debate on whether or not you can use hybrid tech to improve performance, MPG or both and if there were examples of both. The other thought article I was trying to convey was that if the improvements from going hybrid were small and the cost was more than non-hybrid, I would not be interested. If there is true value in spending more to get a hybrid equipped Mustang, I would at least be open to it. That was really the only points I was trying to make.

I agree with this - to a degree. If the hybrid model is lighter, handles better, holds up better on the road course and makes more power - I would be interested. If the hybrid model is cheaper then I would be more interested. Fuel economy is not what I buy cars for, so that is a meaningless stat to me. And a key thing is for the technology to work with a manual transmission.

Who needs a big block pushrod Ford motor?

It wouldn't be the worst thing, but I would prefer a small block DOHC with just enough displacement to make between 600 and 700 reliable HP. The old big block Fords are much larger than what is needed today. The 385 series can easily make 4 digit power naturally aspirated.

 

[martinjlm]

problem with hybrid is the size of the battery pack and weight. An extra 100lb under the rear seats is likely not fatal. You don't need a slushbox to support AWD.

Here’s how the 1.3kWh battery packages in the Explorer. Fits neatly under the rear passenger side seat. I doubt it weighs 100 lbs. The motor (seen here between the engine and the torque converter) will add the most weight. Finally, if they go the AWD route, like I expect Corvette to do, it will be eAWD, placing a small electric motor on the front axle.

 

[Bear_Stang]

I'd buy that - but the aluminator is not street legal :-(

Pretty sure ford could "detune" it to street legal status.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

Hybrids add complexity and cost to the final product. It would be nice just to have a performance vehicle that was more basic and cost less.,

 

[IronG]

The Aviator Grand Touring is not just a hybrid, but a plug-in hybrid. A lot more battery, so a lot more cost. I think it’s around 13.4 kWh...maybe more. Compare to an Explorer Hybrid which has a 1.3kWh battery. Expect the price difference between a Mustang GT and a Mustang GT Hybrid (Mach I) to be closer to the price difference between an Explorer and an Explorer Hybrid, plus whatever other differentiation Ford adds to make it a Mach I.

Ok that would be better but still pushing 60k assuming the "base cost" would be at least what a Bullitt costs today. Hopefully it comes with a 6m, but I highly doubt it will/could. I might have to get a 2020 GT350 or go back to Porsche. Will only cost me about 81K for what I would want

 

[GreenS550]

Considering the massive size of the Coyote vs a pushrod 7.3. It seems that it could fit in the engine bay. A few tweaks and it likely would make 500/500. Plus low end torque. I stroked a 427 medium riser with a 428CJ crank and the torque was unbelieveable. Redlines at 6K. That thing would do 14 seconds in 1 gear. Read that 1 gear. Second. G78-14 Michelins in a 4,000 pound Galaxie. 3.0:1 rear gears.
Now, imagine a non-antique V-8 that size with port fuel injection. Etc, etc.
It would be an instant success.

 

[Hack]

Considering the massive size of the Coyote vs a pushrod 7.3. It seems that it could fit in the engine bay. A few tweaks and it likely would make 500/500. Plus low end torque. I stroked a 427 medium riser with a 428CJ crank and the torque was unbelieveable. Redlines at 6K. That thing would do 14 seconds in 1 gear. Read that 1 gear. Second. G78-14 Michelins in a 4,000 pound Galaxie. 3.0:1 rear gears.
Now, imagine a non-antique V-8 that size with port fuel injection. Etc, etc.
It would be an instant success.

Torque is over-rated. It's ok for pulling things, but power is a measurement of how quickly a vehicle can accelerate. Torque you can get through gearing, but there's no substitute for power.

If you threw away smog regulations you could have a great 7.3 with awesome high winding characteristics. The only problem is you can't throw away smog regulations (and I wouldn't want to). For a classic car the engine you are describing sounds awesome. I just don't think pushrod engines are as great when all the modern regulations are accommodated. The Coyote wouldn't have to increase by much in size to get the displacement for 600 + HP.

 

[GreenS550]

Torque is over-rated. It's ok for pulling things, but power is a measurement of how quickly a vehicle can accelerate. Torque you can get through gearing, but there's no substitute for power.

If you threw away smog regulations you could have a great 7.3 with awesome high winding characteristics. The only problem is you can't throw away smog regulations (and I wouldn't want to). For a classic car the engine you are describing sounds awesome. I just don't think pushrod engines are as great when all the modern regulations are accommodated. The Coyote wouldn't have to increase by much in size to get the displacement for 600 + HP.

I'd be the first in line to buy a Mustang with a 7.3. Torque allows axle ratios to be lazier while giving a throttle response that a small block cannot NA'd. The reason many of us supercharge the Coyote is because when you FI it, you are effectively putting more fuel/air into the mix to somewhat replicate a large displacement engine. The reason the PD blowers are more fun to drive is because of low end torque.

Ford dominated in 1968/69 with their 428 CJ because they simply could not get the torque out of a small block. Horsepower is a calculation which is dependent on torque. Torque at a certain RPM.

This is also the reason Mopar keeps selling Challengers with the 392. Torque. They're fun to drive.

 

[zackmd1]

IF the Mach 1 is a hybrid with a different 5.0, I might just put a deposit down.... What worries me though is if they try and price it like a 350 since the 350 is being discontinued.

 

[Bear_Stang]

IF the Mach 1 is a hybrid with a different 5.0, I might just put a deposit down.... What worries me though is if they try and price it like a 350 since the 350 is being discontinued.

Yep. I would like to see how the first batch turns out. The bullitt was not that much of a departure from an established platform, but this looks like they might try to push some new boundaries and components.

 

[Radguy]

Torque is over-rated. It's ok for pulling things, but power is a measurement of how quickly a vehicle can accelerate. Torque you can get through gearing, but there's no substitute for power.

If you threw away smog regulations you could have a great 7.3 with awesome high winding characteristics. The only problem is you can't throw away smog regulations (and I wouldn't want to). For a classic car the engine you are describing sounds awesome. I just don't think pushrod engines are as great when all the modern regulations are accommodated. The Coyote wouldn't have to increase by much in size to get the displacement for 600 + HP.

Torque gets you there. HP keeps you there.

 

[Hack]

Torque gets you there. HP keeps you there.

I have 1,000 ft-lbs of torque and a 4,000 lb vehicle. How fast can I get through the 1/4 mile?

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