2019 Roush Stage 3 Review by Matt Farah

[Schwerin]

Have you ever torn one down and compared the internals to that of the TR3160? There is no comparison. Not saying anything about "fault" but it is what comes with the car. Want to show you are serious about producing and integrating parts that work together to make an even better car? Then yank the MT82, asap, and move on to the next hurdle. Nothing to get stuck on but rather something to address.

With respect to MT82 failures or TR3160 failures, I think it is clear that the TR3160 has been designed to shift extremely well at higher rpm levels or better than the typical MT82. The Bullitt should have come with the TR3160 (along with GT350 knuckles and brakes) but Ford held back and wasn't willing to allow that car to creep up on the GT350, hence keeping it in the slot they wanted it to be confined to. Roush doesn't have those types of limitations.

But I didn't compare it to the 3160. I said 3650. Just because there is better doesnt mean one is "junk". The 3650 got called Junk when the T56 was out. It wasn't Junk, it just wasn't as good. It was designed to take the abuse the average person will put on it, not a race track. If they put 3160's in everything then they would also have to rise the base price that some already find high for a Mustang.

If they were worried about creeping on the GT350 they wouldn't have made the PP2 at all. I'd still like to see them compared at a track. 20HP and a brake kit shouldn't be anything for GT350's to worry about.

Sponsored

 

[Epiphany]

I compared it to TR3160. You keep mentioning the TR3650. The TR3650 as well as the T56 are outside the realm of production use at current. Ford has long moved on from both of those transmissions. Within the context of this discussion those two units you mention have zero relevance.

When Ford takes advantage of economies of scale the potential is created to lower the cost of the Ford designated TR3160. An assessment regrading tooling, etc for lifecycle the MT82 would have to be studied further in depth. Ford has all the data in hand such that it is pretty much just a matter of applying those increases/decreases to the respective unit chosen.

Ford was worried about creeping up on the GT350, they were pretty frank in admitting that limits were more or less imposed via choices made at the corporate level (for items such as the transmission, knuckles/spindles, calipers/rotors, trans/diff coolers). The twenty horsepower bump the Bullitt got, if used in conjunction with the internal knuckle/brake upgrade, along with requisite cooling that proved necessary for track duty GT350's would absolutely provide a platform to challenge the GT350 at significant cost savings. In addition, the 5.0L engine has way better aftermarket support and is far more receptive to simple big power upgrades such as Ford Racing's blower kit. A Bullitt configured this way would be one heck of a car that delivered without question.

 

[Bullitt0819]

I don't know the gearbox lineup well, but IIRC my '08 Bullitt had a TR3650. I thought it was a bit 'notchy' at first, but on advisement I put synthetic fluid--Sychromax--in it and I thought the shifting improved. When I traded that car in on my '19 Bullit, it had 135K and the original clutch and still shifted well. I'm considering BG Synchro Shift II for my MT82.

Is the TR3160 a direct drop-in for the Getrag and, if so, are any of the aftermarket outfits offering it?

Edit: Found this:

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...or-the-modern-drivelinetremec-t-56-magnum-xl/

anybody done it?

 

[NYDP77]

The rear window covers are absolutely hideous, even more so on early models. They reek of JC Whitney.

Shitcan the gaudiness that only bumps the price up to a level that has true Mustang enthusiasts laughing.

Please tell me more since you are a "true" mustang enthusiast....

 

[SJulian10mm]

I use to think poorly of Matt Farrah's reviews of certain cars, I didn't like how pushed certain topics so much authoritarian attitude. Like how he says Mustangs must have a square tire setup to handle right. Recently I finally squared my tire setup and found that to be true for me, but don't rule out that a staggered setup might be better for someone else or another car setup. As for his Roush reviews, yeah they are harsh but I completely agree with him, having built my own base model GT from bone stock 36K OTD + 15K in go fast goods, it will absolutely tare up any RS3 (stock) on a road course or tight canyon and for what 2/3rds the money.

I personally consider them in a similar category to a Hellcat....the RS3 package moves a Mustang more into the muscle car/GT category...a really fast cruiser with some (limited) cornering capability. I feel like people see that 700+hp number and nothing else, I have a cocky uniformed uncle going through that thought process right. Having seen an RS3 in our local ford dealership, he thinks has going to buy an RS3 and hand me my ass. While he may be able to do so on the straighter streets, on track or up in the hills it will be a different ball game.

 

[Epiphany]

Please tell me more since you are a "true" mustang enthusiast....

I have a sense where you'd like to go but I'll be cordial. Can you be more specific in your request?

 

[Noggles]

But I didn't compare it to the 3160. I said 3650. Just because there is better doesnt mean one is "junk". The 3650 got called Junk when the T56 was out. It wasn't Junk, it just wasn't as good. It was designed to take the abuse the average person will put on it, not a race track. If they put 3160's in everything then they would also have to rise the base price that some already find high for a Mustang.

If they were worried about creeping on the GT350 they wouldn't have made the PP2 at all. I'd still like to see them compared at a track. 20HP and a brake kit shouldn't be anything for GT350's to worry about.

The 3650 wasn’t a good transmission from a power holding standpoint. It lasted in your Mach 1 because it made 300 crank horsepower and no torque. I mean it’s a 4v 4.6 without a blower. Anyone making decent power 400+whp moved to a t56.

GM sticks a good tremec in the 6th gen AND gives all of its car’s standard infotainment systems. Fact is, the bean counters neutered the mustang in many terrible ways and the garbage mt82 is the biggest one of those ways.

 

[NYDP77]

I have a sense where you'd like to go but I'll be cordial. Can you be more specific in your request?

Sure don't be a jerk. I think everyone on this forum is a "true" mustang enthusiast. There are already too many Camaro owners out there.

 

[Schwerin]

The 3650 wasn’t a good transmission from a power holding standpoint. It lasted in your Mach 1 because it made 300 crank horsepower and no torque. I mean it’s a 4v 4.6 without a blower. Anyone making decent power 400+whp moved to a t56.

GM sticks a good tremec in the 6th gen AND gives all of its car’s standard infotainment systems. Fact is, the bean counters neutered the mustang in many terrible ways and the garbage mt82 is the biggest one of those ways.

I was over 320 wheel and over 350tq. People complained about it for many things, shifting, grinding, but the rear would give out before the tranny ever would. So far I don't have any issues with the MT82, I still see people snapping axles before the tranny has issues. If it ever crapped out would I go to a 3160? Sure, probably, but I don't see any reason to do the swap before the 82 breaks. There are other weaker parts to worry about. Again, the average mustang owner isn't going to do ANY mods, there isn't any reason for them to put in a beefier transmission. Fords obviously comfortable letting the cars make over 700 crank with their Ford Performance SC so they obviously have confidence the tranny will hold up or they would be risking lots of replacements. The fact they are fine with full bolt-on GT's making over 500 wheel shows they are already much better than previous transmissions. I mean everyone raves about the new 10spd and over 700 wheel that thing start to bur up its clutches. Being weaker than the top of the line doesn't make it "junk". It just means it was picked for its intended use.

GM is also using similar transmission in the Camaro and Corvette. I wouldn't be amazed if that meant they can get them cheaper than Ford due to buying so many. I also wouldn't be amazed if its cheaper to make the LT engine which offsets part of the costs.

 

[NoVaGT]

His review is a bit odd.

Yes the MT82s aren't the best, but a BG Synchromesh fluid change helps a lot. The clunk into 1st isn't really an issue, it's normal, especially when it's cold.

But his complaining about the car not feeling like 710HP is getting to the ground, that it feels slow for 710HP, definitely tells me Roush did the suspension correctly. When the chassis is up to the task of handling the available power, it feels boring and slow. It feels like it could handle another 200HP. That's just the nature of a good chassis set-up, it's controlled and planted, which to some is boring.

Also, he was shifting too early, and Coyotes are small displacement high-revving engines. They're not 6.2 liter low-RPM brutes, they're high-RPM screamers.

I will definitely agree that the cars are waaaaaaaay too expensive, and that the "Roush" look of badges and badges and stupid badges, is played out. Roush should focus on pure engineering and performance, and leave all the crappy body appendages and interior bits on the shelf.

But, I suppose a buyer could spec the car the way they want, and leave off all that stupid crap.

 

[Chad11491]

I agree with most of what he says. The price is ridiculous, I think the glue on fake vents are ugly, and a Roush car is significantly slower than pretty much any aftermarket FI. The fact that it's still titled as a regular Mustang GT and depreciates like one also makes it not worth it in my eyes.

 

[NYDP77]

Everyone seems stuck on the louvers. This is a design style. Style is subjective. Roush isn't forcing anyone to get a louver. Its an option. Yes it does add to the price because it costs time and materials. I'll just add, there were louvers on Lee Iacocca's 45th anniversary edition. I can only assume he was a fan of louvers. Cheers to Roush and louvers!

 

[Epiphany]

Sure don't be a jerk. I think everyone on this forum is a "true" mustang enthusiast. There are already too many Camaro owners out there.

I figured you'd be taking the low road. Listen Bub, once your skin thickens and have the ability to lay out your opinion on something as subjective as style you no longer feel the need to walk on eggshells. The window covers/louvers are disliked pretty much across the board. I'll be the jerk if that's how you need to communicate your "enthusiast reaction to hardware criticism" to me but know if you had done some research here as well as other web forums you'd apparently being seeing jerks across the board.

Learn to address opinion on subjective matters with a modicum of cognitive effort and your blood pressure will be in much better shape. Go back and read what I wrote. My comments were directed at the choices ROUSH makes in compiling the parts for their cars. They were just as hideous when they were showing up on S197 cars.

And for the record I have no opinion on Camaro owners such that you clearly intimate on your own behalf. The car is an inanimate object that is styled, engineered and manufactured by General Motors. I don't see Camaro owners as any different than a Ford owner.

 

[JTB]

Can't believe Milkbag Libtard Matt Farah is even given these new STANGS to review after the POS Fox he built with the Pride Interior.

 

[Schwerin]

Can't believe Milkbag Libtard Matt Farah is even given these new STANGS to review after the POS Fox he built with the Pride Interior.

Yeah built his "dream stang" and it was kinda, really shit... with every thing hes constantly talking about, steering ration, steering wheel size, corner balancing....then he got rid of it a few months later. Totally ruined what was a rather nice Police car. Should have bought some beat i4 fox for the cheap with all that he ended up replacing on it.

That's said I cant take the opinion of anyone that actually says "libtard" seriously. Do you also run Micro$oft WinBlows? Act better than a 12yo on xbox. You're an adult and this isn't Reddit. Enjoying that cheap Canadian healthcare?

Sponsored