2018+ Change in Aerodynamics with a grille change?

[PaddyPrix]

The holes in the lower triangle are for the air curtain to direct air around the outside of the tires. They increase gas mileage, and are closed on pp cars with wider wheels. It's been discussed in other threads. Search for key words "air curtain".

Edit: changed the typo "works" to "words"

Perhaps I'm just not seeing it then.

My hand is directly behind it, and he reason you can see my thumb is because I've removed the fog/turn signal on the 18+ because they're expensive and heavy, and I'll be removing the headlights too soon enough. From what I've seen in CFD's, is that the air going through the corner is a low pressure zone, with air going through and on a stock 18+ GT, no cooler or anything shaping it, that air will then hit the tires, creating turbulence. When that area is closed, what we can easily prove functional, is what the Ford engineers caught on to was the scoop n' swoop method as seen in the PP undertrays. I've seen a few places back and prove with data that it will outperform the 3" brake ducting, equal parts from the low pressure zone, and turbulence killing the air charge from the ribbed pool tubing that in many cases gets all kinked up too.

As for the air curtain -

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Kinda disproven because there isn't an air inlet in this closed front. The things I could find in other searches talked about the introduction of the 2015, which has a completely different frontend bumper design, and as seen in @2morrow's post just above this probably does work, but at 120+ that 1-3-5% probably doesn't matter for much, and if you're going that fast on a frequent basis, you're probably at the point where you're better off making other supporting mods like an air splitter blade, hood fins, and whatnot.

I'm just wondering why the shapes and why the blocked off grills/vents is all.

You and me both

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[MattsterMusician]

Perhaps I'm just not seeing it then.

My hand is directly behind it, and he reason you can see my thumb is because I've removed the fog/turn signal on the 18+ because they're expensive and heavy, and I'll be removing the headlights too soon enough. From what I've seen in CFD's, is that the air going through the corner is a low pressure zone, with air going through and on a stock 18+ GT, no cooler or anything shaping it, that air will then hit the tires, creating turbulence. When that area is closed, what we can easily prove functional, is what the Ford engineers caught on to was the scoop n' swoop method as seen in the PP undertrays. I've seen a few places back and prove with data that it will outperform the 3" brake ducting, equal parts from the low pressure zone, and turbulence killing the air charge from the ribbed pool tubing that in many cases gets all kinked up too.

As for the air curtain -


Kinda disproven because there isn't an air inlet in this closed front. The things I could find in other searches talked about the introduction of the 2015, which has a completely different frontend bumper design, and as seen in @2morrow's post just above this probably does work, but at 120+ that 1-3-5% probably doesn't matter for much, and if you're going that fast on a frequent basis, you're probably at the point where you're better off making other supporting mods like an air splitter blade, hood fins, and whatnot.


You and me both

I'll take a picture tomorrow. There is a channel behind that triangle grill and channels air out the fender liner to the outside of the wheel.... Except on the performance pack equipped mustangs, it's blocked off because the channel isn't beyond the edge of the wider wheels. So that's why it's blocked off, yet the channel is still there. I will take a picture of the back side of the front bumper, where the channel is located inside the fender liner.

 

[Garfy]

Like many, I chose to go with an aftermarket grille. My S550 is a 2019 PP1.
I went with Cervini upper and lower. Fit is tight and perfect. I am very happy with it.

I also see all the little things like the PP1 pan and it's various channels.

The hoods vents to relieve underhood pressure. (I assume. Too small to be effective for heat,)

The restricted grille intake air and a complete blocking of the lower grille.I assume during the design phase Ford decided that's how it needed to be.

Adding the Cervini opens this up quite a bit and it did make me wonder what I am doing to the aerodynamics.

It was strictly a cosmetic move for me.

What do you think?

Please don't make it about preference. If you are looking to troll or redirect my question please move on. I am looking for the physics of it.

I guess the easiest thing is to see how your fuel economy changed, if any. If it's still giving you the same mpg for the same type of driving, I would say the aero hasn't changed much. Any significant aerodynamic changes would affect the aero drag on the car and if it increased, it would reduce your fuel economy. Those factory grill shutters helped to achieve the better fuel economy of these cars (as they did on the F-series trucks) but they're effective primarily at high enough speeds (if you're driving at 35 mph it probably won't affect anything, though I can't imagine anyone driving a Mustang at that speed for very long).

 

[Firsttexan]

I guess the easiest thing is to see how your fuel economy changed, if any. If it's still giving you the same mpg for the same type of driving, I would say the aero hasn't changed much. Any significant aerodynamic changes would affect the aero drag on the car and if it increased, it would reduce your fuel economy. Those factory grill shutters helped to achieve the better fuel economy of these cars (as they did on the F-series trucks) but they're effective primarily at high enough speeds (if you're driving at 35 mph it probably won't affect anything, though I can't imagine anyone driving a Mustang at that speed for very long).

That was my thought. I seldom drive about 120. So I don't think I will be blowing the pan out. Mostly inner city driving.

I need to do a road trip and see the mileage.

 

[mustang5o]

It doesn't matter what year car or what car at all, changing the grill opening shape and size make
a huge difference in drag. All OEM's take into account not just the overall size but texture displacement
of the grille material to ensure that enough air volume is going to the right places.

In my case I went with a larger grill opening because I thought it would help running at this one
track that I go to that's really hot. The downside was a huge increase in drag resulting in lower top
speed than a similar car as well as crazy hood wobble. I tried to remedy it by using special CF
hood vents and cutting out the excess support material. That was only a temporary fix though (2
track seasons) as it blew 30+ feet in the air while going down the main straight at Thunderhill.

It was actually kinda scary at first then hilarious. Essentially all the pressure building up at high
speed popped the vent off blowing it straight up into the air.

I then got a set of Trackspec vents and you can actually see the all the hot air it's pushing out as
well as how the hood is way more stable at any speed. The front end also feels more planted at
high speed as well. Here's a pic or two.

Interesting fact, the product Water Wetter by Red Line Oil was invented and the NASCAR teams
that used it found they the can run a much smaller radiator opening therefore reducing drag and
allowing a higher top speed.

First off, nice car. I'm moving my car towards track use. I purchased the open grills (MP Concepts) but now I'm thinking I won't install them until I can do the hood venting and maybe locks as well. Though if it slows me down I may not ever want them in .

Is that the GTC 200 wing?

 

[2morrow]

First off, nice car. I'm moving my car towards track use. I purchased the open grills (MP Concepts) but now I'm thinking I won't install them until I can do the hood venting and maybe locks as well. Though if it slows me down I may not ever want them in .

Is that the GTC 200 wing?

Thank you sir. The S550 is a fun car on-track. In regards to the grille, that might be a good idea.

Check out AJ Hartman aero on YouTube, he is an amazing resource for all things aero.

Yes, my wing is a GTC 200 series. They call it the Spec S550 wing. https://aprperformance.com/15-up-mustang-wing/

When your ready to pick up a wing, here's an old install vid.

Have fun out there!

 

[Firsttexan]

This is what the NASA supercomputer info was about. GT500

https://www.brandonford.com/blog/supercomputers-helped-create-the-2020-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500/

 

[aw081271]

This is what the NASA supercomputer info was about. GT500

https://www.brandonford.com/blog/supercomputers-helped-create-the-2020-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500/

OK , Shelby GT500, that makes sense.

but I also know with which supercomputer the normal mustang GT/EB were desinged:

 

[PaddyPrix]

This is what the NASA supercomputer info was about. GT500

https://www.brandonford.com/blog/supercomputers-helped-create-the-2020-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500/

I was looking and couldn't come up with a name. Tried to track it back to a legitimate Ford branded site and nothing but dead ends and copy-pasting stuffs.

Generally speaking, Supercomputers have names, and nerds being nerds, we list and rank them -- https://www.top500.org/lists/top500/2021/11/ -- some of them are incredibly massive, think the size of a football field. Renting something like that out for a CFD that one could do on a modern home PC or even spinning up a handful of AWS instances seems more plausible.

 

[smoke_wagon_6g]

There's no answer for you. The grille manufacturers have wind tunnel or track tested surely, it's not expensive and it's easy to do. They must also have thermal cameras. Even I have one.

If grille manufacturers don't claim any result the obvious conclusion is that there's little to no, or even a negative effect. Hopefully it's only negative on MPG and not on cooling or durability.

Everyone likes to use their gut and speculate. Well aero is not intuitive. People in the 1950s thought aero was all curvy and swoopy, like a sci-fi rocket.

Know what's actually aerodynamic? A Prius.

Want to add: don't forget the grill also protects the radiator, and intercooler too I suppose. You get plenty of cooling air already. Less grille means less protection from stones and other junk at 120 mph.

 

[shogun32]

Know what's actually aerodynamic? A Prius.

and the sharp vertical cut on the GM Cutlass. Can't speak for the rest of the car...

 

[mustang5o]

There's no answer for you. The grille manufacturers have wind tunnel or track tested surely, it's not expensive and it's easy to do. They must also have thermal cameras. Even I have one.

If grille manufacturers don't claim any result the obvious conclusion is that there's little to no, or even a negative effect. Hopefully it's only negative on MPG and not on cooling or durability.

Everyone likes to use their gut and speculate. Well aero is not intuitive. People in the 1950s thought aero was all curvy and swoopy, like a sci-fi rocket.

Know what's actually aerodynamic? A Prius.

Want to add: don't forget the grill also protects the radiator, and intercooler too I suppose. You get plenty of cooling air already. Less grille means less protection from stones and other junk at 120 mph.

This is true. Although plenty of track guys have learned what works and what doesn't. I know guys who's engine temps dropped when removing their grill. That being said, without somewhere for the air to go you might be asking for trouble at high speeds.

As to your last point I thought about adding some wire mesh behind the grill to protect the radiator.

 

[Firsttexan]

This is true. Although plenty of track guys have learned what works and what doesn't. I know guys who's engine temps dropped when removing their grill. That being said, without somewhere for the air to go you might be asking for trouble at high speeds.

As to your last point I thought about adding some wire mesh behind the grill to protect the radiator.

The Cervinis have a very nice, stiff, powder coated mesh.

The southern heat is always the reason we have opened cars up in the past. But on this one, it's obvious they spent some real time engineering it.

Looking at the factory grille. The upper is fully open. The lower is fully blocked.

Not sure I need to change anything. If I tracked it. I think I might need a heavily vented hood.

I keep it under 120 99% of the time.

 

[andrewtac]

It doesn't matter what year car or what car at all, changing the grill opening shape and size make
a huge difference in drag. All OEM's take into account not just the overall size but texture displacement
of the grille material to ensure that enough air volume is going to the right places.

In my case I went with a larger grill opening because I thought it would help running at this one
track that I go to that's really hot. The downside was a huge increase in drag resulting in lower top
speed than a similar car as well as crazy hood wobble. I tried to remedy it by using special CF
hood vents and cutting out the excess support material.

What was the difference in top end speed, that would be considered huge?

 

[2morrow]

What was the difference in top end speed, that would be considered huge?

When on track I/Many drivers don't look at the speedo. Too many things to compute mentally.
I know that when my vent flew off I was doing about ~125 because I looked.

At the same time my current setup is not configured for top end since I have so much aero on it.
It's all about carrying the speed through corners.

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